WEBVTT

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Hmm.

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Wow. We did it live. Andy Frasco's World Saving podcast.

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It is festival season people. Yes. Oh

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Yes. We're back.

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Festival season is here.

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Yep. Most of them are back. Most of them for now.

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Including a very big one that we interviewed.

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Yeah. We just interviewed one of the founders,

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the founders of New York's biggest

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music festival Governor's Ball.

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Yeah. That was awesome. He was incredible.

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Yeah. You know, you thought you'd think these guys

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would be a little more pretentious, but they're not.

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I would be if I was them, but I don't know. I guess not.

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And he's like a music fan though. Yeah.

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He was wearing a phish sweatshirt.

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What is this thing with every major guy in music,

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whether they're booking jam band s**t

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or not all started as Phish fans.

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I have an idea of that Because

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Oh, as a business mind,

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they probably respect the f**k outta Phish

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how they built this f*****g career.

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They're geniuses And no f*****g singles.

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No singles on the radio, just straight live music. Also,

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Their business model is pretty, like, really good.

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They keep it all, all their money in house.

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They make their own merch. Did you know that,

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By the way, this is Nick Gerlach, my co-host.

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They know it's Andy Frasco World Saving

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Podcast. They know who I am by

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now.

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Welcome back. They've already turned it off. They're

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Like, f**k This a*****e.

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What are they gonna do? Just a

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nick, only one to get notified.

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Yeah. Um, but Phish has a crazy business model

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where they keep everything in house.

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They're very smart with that.

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That's how I wanted to get this guy on the

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show. Don't, don't do

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It. I, I'm just kidding. I

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don't even know if

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You won't pulled the Kanye on there. I don't

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Even know if that's true, actually.

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Oh my God. Um,

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but yeah, it's, uh, being a promoter in this day

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of age takes some f*****g balls.

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I'd rather be an ER doctor. I think

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Granted, you know, you gotta, you got a bank

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that's Live Nation

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or a EG, whatever it is when you're on these bigger

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festivals, but just like, put your dick out there

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and be a music festival promoter.

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Founder takes a lot of coones.

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And on the topic of having a bank like Live Nation,

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you have to get yourself to the

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point where they will give you money.

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Exactly. Also, they will bail on you

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so f*****g fast if you start, it's not like,

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they're not like homies where it's like,

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oh, I'll bankroll another one. It's like, what

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Was that? There's like Mound

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Jam. Yeah.

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Um, I think it's called Mound Jam. Yeah.

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Yeah. West Virginia. No, no.

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Um, or no, Woodstock, New York.

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Oh, that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Live Nation or some of them. One of them bought Mound Jam.

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Mm-hmm. And from this guy Gary. Mm-hmm.

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Um, and uh, which I'm kind of frustrated with Gary.

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Uh, he didn't book me on his festival when

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he promised me, but anyway. Is this

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The Catskill Chill guy? No, no, but

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It's around there. I'm

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on to you, Gary. Yeah.

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Gary, you did a good job not asking Tom Russell if you

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could be play the festival next year. Dude,

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You f*****g tried to burn me in the beginning.

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No, we are homies. He, he knew. He knows us already. Yeah.

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Yeah. He said he is listened before

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He tried to burn me in the beginning.

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It wasn't before he gonna ask you.

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Oh. He thought it was funny. So annoying.

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Most people know jokes, But like when I'm asking,

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you gotta, it's better. It

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Wasn't during The interview. I

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know, but like, you doing it

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before, just to get a f*****g quick joke.

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Mm-hmm. Doesn't make the interview.

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When he gets a surprise to me asking, then it's like, I

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Didn't think you were gonna actually ask him that.

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I was

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The F**k you'll get on there.

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I don't think that'll f**k you,

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Dude. I know, but like, Don

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just like,

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it's like telling someone the questions before

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Nah. The interview.

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I

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didn't think you would actually ask them that.

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You know, I'm not a p***y.

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I ask anyone anything, you know, I

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Have no line. Yeah. I

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Ain't no f*****g softy.

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I bet you get on anyway.

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No, I'm not. He, he told a straight head, young fans like

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Jam fans. Yeah. It's like,

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no 35 year olds.

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Yeah. No. Yeah. All Jam fans are like 40 years old now.

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And he said the festival scene's gotten way younger.

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I think that's 'cause of EDMA little bit too.

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And pop. He said he's like only booking pop and rock.

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Yeah. Weird. But you're gonna love this interview.

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I mean, if you like the business side of music,

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all the bands out there who like, are wondering how

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to get on Bonnaroo and wondering how to get on, um,

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Governor's Ball, governor's Ball.

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Coachella, Coachella and ACL.

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We just, big luck talked to the f*****g founder of one

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of these big ass festivals

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and he was honest about the whole thing.

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He was cool. You know, he didn't sugarcoat it.

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I felt like a lot of these guys probably sugarcoated a hair,

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but we're gonna get more of these guys.

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I wanna get outside Lands Guy on there. He was

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Pretty practical.

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I gotta get John Bongiorno on there too. Wheres

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The outside lands again? Is that in California? No,

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Um, yeah, It's in San Francisco.

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We should call John. It's in San Francisco. Right.

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And see what's his take on these vendors

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Isn't in the Bay.

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Um, My sister goes to it.

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We should call him. He probably won't answer.

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He, I could tell when he is super busy.

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Yeah. He's short with me on text sometimes. Hold on.

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This is my agent, John Bongiorno. Yep. I knew it. Um, that's

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His Voicemail. Call me

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Johnno.

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That's hilarious. Um, he put you right to the,

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he didn't even let it ring.

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Nope. He knows He's in a meeting

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with someone that makes more money than you. Oh,

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Hold on. Lemme text on a

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team call.

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Yeah, sure. I wanna

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Put you, I wanna put you on the pod. Get

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The whole team call Talk.

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He's on a team call. I wanna put

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On talk, be the whole team on the pod.

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Um, Okay. Governor's Ball.

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All right. Nevermind. Um,

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but, you know, agents, you know, John's a big agent.

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He manage, he books K cr bin.

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He books Royal, who's on Governor's Ball.

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I'm just curious to hear both sides of the story of,

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you know, it's like the push and pull of it all.

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The push and pull of it, you know, like

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to get these big headliners, you know, do you need to do,

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is there a negotiating power

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to get some of their smaller bands off? Sounds

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Fun. It's

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like, uh, you're holding the cards.

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You're both holding cards. You both

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Have some leverage. You

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Both have some leverage.

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It was very fascinating.

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We love leverage in this podcast. We

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Love leverage.

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I almost never have it, but

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God, I do.

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Oh man. Speaking of leverage volume.com.

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Speaking of leverage, Sign up for our only,

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uh, f Rasco subscription.

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Listen, everyone, this is what's going down.

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We are doing less things on the internet. Mm-hmm.

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So this is the way to get a hold of more content.

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If you can't see this band play a lot,

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because you might be in some,

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you have a job. You have a job or

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Life. Yeah.

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Or, you know, it's again, exp you know, it's expensive.

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We keep the shows cheaper,

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but it's still expensive to go travel.

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Do your thing. Travel. And if you just wanna watch the band

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from the comforts of your home, five bucks a month,

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we'll give you one live stream every month.

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You can still watch this from your house.

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You go chug a beer with your Hey

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RA's playing this Friday. Bring your neighbor.

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Yeah. Make it a party. Get drunk in your basement. And

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We're gonna be doing exclusive podcasts.

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Mm-hmm. And Nick's setting up a really hot

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and really cumy trivia

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Show platform, if you will.

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Nick's going too. We're gonna be competing for your

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Yeah. I'm gonna destroy

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you. Actually, I don't think so.

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That'd be so fun. That would be funny

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If I get, we should just do this together.

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But if I get, if you wanna do your own. No,

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I think one thing in my life

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could be not connected to you.

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All right then. I don't know why I'm pushing

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so hard to be, because

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You're my friend.

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Right. You care about me and you want me to be successful

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because you're not around me all the time.

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I need something to do. When you're on the

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road with your band.

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200 days a year. Andy thinks I just like,

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am like the Indian of the cupboard.

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And like, I turn, like, as soon as he lemme sit up, uh,

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as, as Andy thinks, I'm like the Indian for Cupboard.

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And like, he's like, oh, I'm going to on the road tomorrow.

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He thinks he just like, puts me in a closet

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and I just like, turn into a statue.

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And then he, and then he texts me when he gets home.

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He's like, can you come over and set up the

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studio and I come to life?

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That's what you think it is, isn't it? Right.

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No. Have you ever heard of, so

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You also do trivia.

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Yeah. But I don't do it when you're not there.

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Have you ever heard of Sonder?

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No. It's like when you realize that other people

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also have these, their entire lives

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and thoughts and feelings too. Oh

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Yeah. You've been telling

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me that

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They're not just characters in a movie. No. The

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World doesn't evolve around Me.

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Not even that evolve around you.

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Revolve, revolve and evolve around you.

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But, um, it's like when you realize everybody has their own

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like, full life too, and you're just

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a character in their life as well.

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Yeah. Something to think about.

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Anyway. volume.com. Sign up for both Nick and my sign

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Up for his thing. Mine's

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not ready yet. Just do his first. It

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Will be when this comes out. If

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you have extra money, do mine.

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Andy's an important one. We all know how,

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Oh my God. I'm just kidding.

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Look at this. I'm so good at this. I learned

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Little f*****g EOR over Here.

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That's from my, that was my nickname in high. I gotta

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Stop. I'm, I'm just

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gonna start thinking about myself.

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But finally I try

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to get everyone paid out here and everyone's just like,

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I haven't, I know.

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I don't know if I ever complained.

256
00:08:40.115 --> 00:08:41.895
You're p****d when they, when you know,

257
00:08:42.285 --> 00:08:45.215
When I'm not going into it. I'm not

258
00:08:45.215 --> 00:08:46.215
P****d. I'm not

259
00:08:46.215 --> 00:08:48.255
getting into it. You're, you're conflating me

260
00:08:48.255 --> 00:08:53.215
with other people in your life, aren't you?

261
00:08:53.765 --> 00:08:54.855
Sign up for volume back home.

262
00:08:55.585 --> 00:08:57.365
Um, how you doing Nick? What else is

263
00:08:57.365 --> 00:08:58.565
Going on? I'm actually doing really well.

264
00:08:59.085 --> 00:09:00.005
I guess it's festival season.

265
00:09:00.025 --> 00:09:01.205
Are you on any festivals this year?

266
00:09:01.205 --> 00:09:02.645
This is the festival episode.

267
00:09:02.865 --> 00:09:04.125
No, I'm doing a bunch of after parties

268
00:09:04.145 --> 00:09:05.485
for widespread panic and s**t.

269
00:09:05.485 --> 00:09:07.605
Like really? I'm doing Asheville after party.

270
00:09:08.635 --> 00:09:10.725
What? What? I'm playing with a colt.

271
00:09:10.725 --> 00:09:12.925
We're gonna do Asheville in July. That's sick.

272
00:09:12.935 --> 00:09:14.165
We're at the Asheville Music

273
00:09:14.165 --> 00:09:15.165
Hall. The one stop.

274
00:09:15.165 --> 00:09:16.365
The bottom hook. Sick. I know.

275
00:09:16.365 --> 00:09:17.725
It's gonna be sick. I got a local band.

276
00:09:17.725 --> 00:09:20.725
Well, I, what's that? July I wanna go. You should go.

277
00:09:20.725 --> 00:09:24.245
It's like late July. Yo. And, and panics playing. That'd

278
00:09:24.245 --> 00:09:25.245
Be sick. We should go to Governor's

279
00:09:25.245 --> 00:09:26.245
Ball next week. I'm

280
00:09:26.245 --> 00:09:27.245
Down. This

281
00:09:27.245 --> 00:09:28.445
is, uh, New York City.

282
00:09:28.565 --> 00:09:29.725
I think you don't have a good, you think

283
00:09:29.725 --> 00:09:31.885
The hook is up with like, sick tickets? Probably.

284
00:09:32.095 --> 00:09:33.165
We're pretty important.

285
00:09:34.155 --> 00:09:37.645
Damn. We are kind of important People.

286
00:09:38.325 --> 00:09:39.485
Founders wanna be on our podcast.

287
00:09:39.615 --> 00:09:40.965
Where It's in Queens too.

288
00:09:41.005 --> 00:09:42.205
I like that. I haven't really spent much

289
00:09:42.205 --> 00:09:43.205
Time. I thought it was on an island.

290
00:09:43.465 --> 00:09:45.045
It was. It moved. It's moved like four

291
00:09:45.045 --> 00:09:46.245
times. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

292
00:09:46.275 --> 00:09:48.565
Just keeps getting bigger Probably. Yeah. Yeah.

293
00:09:48.585 --> 00:09:49.685
Or just cheaper to do it.

294
00:09:49.785 --> 00:09:51.885
God, it must be a pain in the ass to deal

295
00:09:51.885 --> 00:09:53.045
with the f*****g city of New York.

296
00:09:53.185 --> 00:09:54.765
Ugh. Sounds f*****g,

297
00:09:54.965 --> 00:09:56.405
I don't even like it on the Instagram.

298
00:09:56.915 --> 00:09:59.325
It's hard to deal with the city of Denver. I

299
00:09:59.325 --> 00:10:01.005
Love New York City, but it is a lot.

300
00:10:01.235 --> 00:10:02.485
It's a lot. I couldn't live there.

301
00:10:03.445 --> 00:10:07.085
I wanna go. That sounds fun. Who's on OTI role? Odi.

302
00:10:07.185 --> 00:10:10.685
Um, God Damnit. I think Tyler the creator. Mm-hmm.

303
00:10:11.325 --> 00:10:12.685
I gotta look again. But there's a bunch

304
00:10:12.685 --> 00:10:14.165
of badass like pop stars. So

305
00:10:14.165 --> 00:10:15.165
Head over to Governor's Ball. It's

306
00:10:15.165 --> 00:10:16.565
gonna be great if you're in the New York.

307
00:10:16.565 --> 00:10:19.045
You a lot of New York fans on this podcast. Go.

308
00:10:19.615 --> 00:10:21.165
Tom's a really good guy. He was cool

309
00:10:21.165 --> 00:10:21.645
As hell. He

310
00:10:21.645 --> 00:10:22.645
Was cool. He used to super

311
00:10:22.645 --> 00:10:24.445
fly. Was it? Yeah. Super Fly.

312
00:10:24.465 --> 00:10:27.805
He was, he was one of the top dogs at Superfly, which

313
00:10:28.205 --> 00:10:29.805
Produced Bonnaroo, which Produced Bonnaroo.

314
00:10:29.825 --> 00:10:30.885
Not anymore. I like his story.

315
00:10:30.885 --> 00:10:33.045
You said, Hey, are you going to,

316
00:10:34.085 --> 00:10:35.485
I wanna start my own big thing.

317
00:10:35.505 --> 00:10:38.165
And they're like, well, good luck. Yeah.

318
00:10:38.385 --> 00:10:40.085
And then he f*****g did it. So shut out the Tom.

319
00:10:40.085 --> 00:10:42.885
Yeah. That's good job. I don't think they do Bonnaroo.

320
00:10:42.885 --> 00:10:44.005
They must have sold Bonnaroo, huh?

321
00:10:45.365 --> 00:10:46.805
I think. No, they still do it. I

322
00:10:46.805 --> 00:10:49.205
Thought they sold it Or what? To who? C3

323
00:10:49.205 --> 00:10:50.685
Superfly or something. Well, C3.

324
00:10:50.745 --> 00:10:52.085
No, no. Live Nation. Live Nation.

325
00:10:52.115 --> 00:10:53.645
They did sell it to Live Nation. Well,

326
00:10:53.685 --> 00:10:54.805
C3 is Live Nation too.

327
00:10:55.145 --> 00:10:57.085
So they might have sold a C3 before they went to it. Damn.

328
00:10:57.085 --> 00:10:59.485
It's all like a big monopoly soon. I

329
00:10:59.485 --> 00:10:59.925
Know. Yeah.

330
00:10:59.955 --> 00:11:01.365
Well, whatever. Pretty Exciting.

331
00:11:01.995 --> 00:11:03.205
What else are you mad at me about?

332
00:11:03.585 --> 00:11:06.325
That's it. Nice. Just existing?

333
00:11:06.705 --> 00:11:08.285
No, just having my own life and

334
00:11:08.745 --> 00:11:11.045
No, I work hard for you and you work hard for me.

335
00:11:11.425 --> 00:11:12.965
We have f*****g, we work hard. We have gr

336
00:11:12.965 --> 00:11:13.965
Relat. I think we have a really good working relationship.

337
00:11:13.965 --> 00:11:14.445

338
00:11:14.685 --> 00:11:15.965
Actually. We do. You've never yelled at

339
00:11:15.965 --> 00:11:17.805
everybody says you yell at them. I, I never,

340
00:11:17.805 --> 00:11:18.965
Never yelled at you. I

341
00:11:18.965 --> 00:11:20.285
Don't think I've ever done anything. Everyone

342
00:11:20.305 --> 00:11:21.965
Who said I'm f*****g yell at, at.

343
00:11:22.115 --> 00:11:23.445
Just kidding. I was kidding.

344
00:11:23.445 --> 00:11:25.045
Just trying to get under your, but I,

345
00:11:25.205 --> 00:11:26.925
I probably Bo I think you've yelled at Bo

346
00:11:26.955 --> 00:11:28.325
I've yelled at Bo yelled.

347
00:11:28.605 --> 00:11:30.365
I, no, I yelling. Just got frustrated.

348
00:11:30.725 --> 00:11:32.125
I think you're more of a passive aggressive

349
00:11:32.125 --> 00:11:33.165
guy. When you get mad at people.

350
00:11:33.405 --> 00:11:34.845
I normally yell at a mirror.

351
00:11:35.795 --> 00:11:37.405
Yeah. The thing is, you don't beat anybody up

352
00:11:37.405 --> 00:11:38.805
harder than you beat yourself up. So

353
00:11:39.145 --> 00:11:40.805
Why do we do that to ourselves? I

354
00:11:40.805 --> 00:11:41.805
Dunno. I don't know. It's

355
00:11:41.805 --> 00:11:42.965
just natural, I guess.

356
00:11:43.505 --> 00:11:45.405
Stupid, But people are like, Andy can be

357
00:11:45.405 --> 00:11:46.725
so I'm like, he's always nice to me.

358
00:11:46.725 --> 00:11:48.765
Maybe you should show up on time and do your f*****g job.

359
00:11:53.155 --> 00:11:56.285
Tell him how You feel, Nick, Mr. On time. Never, you

360
00:11:56.285 --> 00:11:56.885
Know? Yeah.

361
00:11:57.355 --> 00:11:58.365
Only minimal mistakes.

362
00:11:58.565 --> 00:12:00.405
I am a human being. I'm not perfect or anything.

363
00:12:00.565 --> 00:12:02.005
I don't complain about doing my job.

364
00:12:02.585 --> 00:12:05.085
Mm. No, you're right. I don't. No.

365
00:12:05.545 --> 00:12:06.845
Or do I? No, I don't think so.

366
00:12:06.865 --> 00:12:09.125
Not anymore than like a normal person. No.

367
00:12:09.245 --> 00:12:11.165
I mean, you cannot, you're allowed to complain sometimes.

368
00:12:11.875 --> 00:12:13.365
It's okay to Complain. Yeah. No.

369
00:12:13.385 --> 00:12:15.045
But just not can't, you can't make it your personal. What

370
00:12:15.045 --> 00:12:16.045
Do you complain about?

371
00:12:18.525 --> 00:12:21.445
Hmm. Am I a big, I don't think I'm a big complainer.

372
00:12:22.025 --> 00:12:23.965
You're not a complainer, but

373
00:12:23.965 --> 00:12:25.965
I'm more of a pointer outer of observe. I like to,

374
00:12:25.965 --> 00:12:27.165
That's complaining. Yeah. But

375
00:12:27.755 --> 00:12:28.885
More about stuff for other people.

376
00:12:29.045 --> 00:12:32.205
I don't, I'm, nothing's really p*****g me off right now.

377
00:12:32.705 --> 00:12:34.125
You'll really grudge my gears.

378
00:12:34.255 --> 00:12:35.965
Maybe this politics are kind of annoying,

379
00:12:35.985 --> 00:12:36.845
but that's everybody's

380
00:12:36.925 --> 00:12:38.125
complaining about. That's normal. That's,

381
00:12:38.245 --> 00:12:39.245
I, yeah. I don't know too

382
00:12:39.245 --> 00:12:40.445
much about politics.

383
00:12:40.705 --> 00:12:42.125
I'm starting to get into like,

384
00:12:42.475 --> 00:12:43.805
just hearing people's opinions.

385
00:12:43.805 --> 00:12:44.725
So I'm hearing every side

386
00:12:44.725 --> 00:12:45.725
of the opinion, which is kind of cool.

387
00:12:45.915 --> 00:12:47.965
Yeah. But it's also getting me confused.

388
00:12:48.355 --> 00:12:50.645
It's very confusing because everybody's so dumb too.

389
00:12:51.325 --> 00:12:53.125
Everyone's dumb and they all think they're f*****g smart.

390
00:12:53.265 --> 00:12:55.525
And it's just like, then I'm just like, damn,

391
00:12:55.585 --> 00:12:56.685
am I dumb? Or it's

392
00:12:56.685 --> 00:12:58.405
Like, the more readily you give your opinion,

393
00:12:58.425 --> 00:12:59.605
the less interested than I am.

394
00:12:59.795 --> 00:13:01.765
Like, am I dumb thinking these people are dumb?

395
00:13:02.125 --> 00:13:03.765
Hmm. No. You're allowed to have your own opinion too.

396
00:13:04.955 --> 00:13:07.885
Okay. But anyway, this is not the talk.

397
00:13:07.885 --> 00:13:09.445
This is a music festival episode.

398
00:13:09.445 --> 00:13:11.245
Yeah. But we're not even saying anything about politics.

399
00:13:11.245 --> 00:13:12.285
We're just saying shut up about it.

400
00:13:12.285 --> 00:13:14.365
What about the politics of being in a music festival?

401
00:13:14.545 --> 00:13:15.885
Oof. There's gotta be a ton of,

402
00:13:15.945 --> 00:13:16.965
and there's a lot of politics.

403
00:13:16.965 --> 00:13:19.125
There's gotta, dude, there's Bureaucracy.

404
00:13:19.145 --> 00:13:20.485
Red tape. These guys deal with,

405
00:13:20.625 --> 00:13:21.725
I'm trying to see. It's like high

406
00:13:21.725 --> 00:13:22.765
School, probably like trying to get

407
00:13:22.765 --> 00:13:25.285
to high school prom date. You know, think

408
00:13:25.365 --> 00:13:28.125
About with every state has a festival trying

409
00:13:28.125 --> 00:13:29.245
to book the same bands.

410
00:13:29.245 --> 00:13:32.125
Mm-hmm. And the bands are like, I want to take every show.

411
00:13:32.185 --> 00:13:35.165
So the agents have to really like, negotiate Uhhuh.

412
00:13:36.585 --> 00:13:39.125
You're, you're cutting out the radius clause for this.

413
00:13:39.125 --> 00:13:40.765
So they could do this if you want this type of deal.

414
00:13:40.905 --> 00:13:42.325
So it's like, it's a juggle man.

415
00:13:42.795 --> 00:13:44.965
Yeah. Like, for my show opening you for August,

416
00:13:45.085 --> 00:13:46.605
I was like, I'm not doing a radius clause.

417
00:13:47.065 --> 00:13:49.005
You do radius clause. They tried to make me,

418
00:13:49.045 --> 00:13:50.805
I was like, I'll do one before, but not after. What'd

419
00:13:50.805 --> 00:13:51.805
They say? 60

420
00:13:51.805 --> 00:13:53.205
days or something on either side.

421
00:13:53.205 --> 00:13:54.565
I'm like, I'm just opening. Okay.

422
00:13:54.795 --> 00:13:56.005
It's a free show. Yeah.

423
00:13:56.405 --> 00:13:57.965
I think it's just a standard thing. They put in everything.

424
00:13:57.995 --> 00:13:59.245
Yeah. I was just f*****g It's

425
00:13:59.245 --> 00:14:00.165
Live Nation too. Yeah.

426
00:14:00.165 --> 00:14:01.325
My show's three months. My show

427
00:14:01.325 --> 00:14:02.765
before is three months ahead, so it

428
00:14:02.765 --> 00:14:04.405
Wasn't Are you excited for your big show

429
00:14:05.195 --> 00:14:06.605
Opening for you at Levitt?

430
00:14:07.145 --> 00:14:08.485
No. Oh. Well, that already

431
00:14:08.605 --> 00:14:09.605
Happened. That's that's the biggest one

432
00:14:09.605 --> 00:14:10.365
you've done in a while.

433
00:14:10.435 --> 00:14:12.005
Yeah. It'll be sick. Um,

434
00:14:12.105 --> 00:14:13.105
But, uh, no. Don't you have another

435
00:14:13.105 --> 00:14:14.565
show, like a headline show? Yeah. But

436
00:14:14.565 --> 00:14:15.565
That had already happened at this point. I'm

437
00:14:15.565 --> 00:14:17.445
opening for Victor on Friday. Oh yeah?

438
00:14:17.445 --> 00:14:18.725
Yeah. How was that great

439
00:14:19.115 --> 00:14:21.445
Band Smashed to Victor Wooten Brothers are

440
00:14:21.455 --> 00:14:23.165
incredible. Great crowd.

441
00:14:23.305 --> 00:14:25.085
Seemed like a killer show. Everyone was stoked.

442
00:14:25.365 --> 00:14:26.925
Everyone was super stoked. The band's really good.

443
00:14:26.925 --> 00:14:31.245
We're better than ever. That's how you do it. The Colt baby.

444
00:14:31.825 --> 00:14:33.885
Ah, funny. I am stoked for the Lovet Pavilion thing.

445
00:14:33.885 --> 00:14:35.325
I haven't played there in a while. I played there

446
00:14:35.325 --> 00:14:36.645
with Opio in two years ago.

447
00:14:36.645 --> 00:14:38.125
That was fun. I love that

448
00:14:38.135 --> 00:14:39.685
Place, Dude. It's fun as s**t.

449
00:14:39.885 --> 00:14:42.125
I think more people are going to that now. I think they're

450
00:14:42.125 --> 00:14:43.605
Getting outta the little Red Rocks vortex.

451
00:14:44.115 --> 00:14:46.405
Yeah. I mean, and like, it's so hard

452
00:14:46.425 --> 00:14:49.325
to get dates anymore at Red Rocks, so it's like, you might

453
00:14:49.325 --> 00:14:52.525
as well do a big show in your local town. When

454
00:14:52.525 --> 00:14:56.125
I first moved here, red Rocks had like 80 shows a year.

455
00:14:56.145 --> 00:14:58.205
Now they have like 200 at. I feel it's crazy.

456
00:14:58.205 --> 00:14:59.205
Yeah. They, they're, they're,

457
00:14:59.205 --> 00:15:01.125
they started booking Red Rocks now in March.

458
00:15:01.595 --> 00:15:03.125
Yeah. I've played my,

459
00:15:03.145 --> 00:15:04.725
my first year the f**k I played here,

460
00:15:04.925 --> 00:15:07.205
I played Red Rocks four times the first year I lived here.

461
00:15:07.255 --> 00:15:09.925
Right. And it was like a way

462
00:15:09.925 --> 00:15:11.205
different kind of bands were playing here.

463
00:15:11.205 --> 00:15:12.925
It was more of like a th it felt like more

464
00:15:12.925 --> 00:15:14.005
of a thing now, Pete.

465
00:15:14.005 --> 00:15:15.165
It's like a gig. Mm-hmm.

466
00:15:15.305 --> 00:15:16.765
Do you think the Mission Ballroom did that?

467
00:15:17.025 --> 00:15:18.365
Yep. I love going to Mission.

468
00:15:19.225 --> 00:15:22.605
Um, speaking of Red Rocks, I have shows to announce.

469
00:15:22.745 --> 00:15:24.525
Oh, you're playing? Um, I'm going on tour.

470
00:15:24.525 --> 00:15:27.405
We're going on our little bus tour, little summer tour. Oh.

471
00:15:27.715 --> 00:15:30.725
June 12th, Washington DC Ooh. Um, I,

472
00:15:30.785 --> 00:15:32.005
For my brother to come, um,

473
00:15:32.475 --> 00:15:34.605
What is that, the nine 30 Club? Yeah.

474
00:15:35.025 --> 00:15:36.205
Yep. That's in dc. Yeah.

475
00:15:36.235 --> 00:15:38.525
June 13th, Dewey Beach. Excited to go back there.

476
00:15:38.705 --> 00:15:40.285
Oh, Ryan Felipe. Ryan.

477
00:15:40.305 --> 00:15:42.445
Felipe the 14th. We're at Northlands.

478
00:15:42.795 --> 00:15:43.965
Where's that with Ally Crawl?

479
00:15:44.145 --> 00:15:46.245
Is that a festival? Yeah, it's in,

480
00:15:46.245 --> 00:15:47.925
uh, Swansea, new New Hampshire. Take

481
00:15:47.925 --> 00:15:48.925
A breath. Heartburn.

482
00:15:48.925 --> 00:15:49.965
I got

483
00:15:49.965 --> 00:15:50.965
A little heartburn. I drank

484
00:15:50.965 --> 00:15:54.245
too much coffee today. Mm. Uh, the 15th we're doing.

485
00:15:54.245 --> 00:15:56.045
Oh, we're doing a private party. But damn, those,

486
00:15:56.295 --> 00:15:58.085
those old Jews love my ass.

487
00:15:58.105 --> 00:15:59.245
I'm doing a private party.

488
00:15:59.245 --> 00:16:00.485
That horror is paying off. That

489
00:16:00.485 --> 00:16:01.485
Horror is paying off.

490
00:16:01.495 --> 00:16:02.495
Shout out dude.

491
00:16:03.935 --> 00:16:05.085
Every time you do the horror,

492
00:16:05.105 --> 00:16:08.205
you get another 10 grand. A little more though.

493
00:16:08.745 --> 00:16:09.765
Um, straight from

494
00:16:09.845 --> 00:16:10.885
Trek, straight from the Israel.

495
00:16:11.445 --> 00:16:13.485
Straight. Jesus

496
00:16:13.715 --> 00:16:14.715
F*****g Christ.

497
00:16:15.465 --> 00:16:17.045
Um, then I got three days off.

498
00:16:17.225 --> 00:16:19.885
And then we head to Almont Colorado. Almont Colorado.

499
00:16:19.885 --> 00:16:21.645
Listen, I'm actually coming this time. Is

500
00:16:21.645 --> 00:16:22.845
This the one you had to Second time?

501
00:16:22.845 --> 00:16:25.525
I've canceled. I'm not, I will not cancel.

502
00:16:25.705 --> 00:16:26.765
You canceled twice on them

503
00:16:26.955 --> 00:16:27.955
Once I was sick.

504
00:16:28.005 --> 00:16:29.485
'cause of Red Rocks. The other one

505
00:16:29.485 --> 00:16:30.885
that we thought there was gonna be a sword.

506
00:16:30.885 --> 00:16:32.325
Weather. Weather, uh, a snowstorm.

507
00:16:32.325 --> 00:16:35.645
Because the next day was, um, uh, mission bar.

508
00:16:36.105 --> 00:16:38.285
So we canceled it and then it was a f*****g beautiful day.

509
00:16:38.285 --> 00:16:40.085
And I, I got s*****d on. That's

510
00:16:40.315 --> 00:16:41.315
Fair. I'm sorry.

511
00:16:41.315 --> 00:16:44.645
But I will be playing at June 19th. June 20th.

512
00:16:44.645 --> 00:16:47.365
Cheyenne, Wyoming. Oh, fun, fun. I'm excited with that.

513
00:16:47.595 --> 00:16:48.765
Then 21st. Excited

514
00:16:48.765 --> 00:16:51.085
for this one free show at Steamboat Springs, Colorado.

515
00:16:51.665 --> 00:16:54.485
22nd free show in, I'm trying to,

516
00:16:54.555 --> 00:16:57.165
it's the econ Economy plan.

517
00:16:57.355 --> 00:16:59.645
Yeah. I'm trying to do a lot more free shows. So yeah.

518
00:16:59.645 --> 00:17:01.645
So everyone could afford to go.

519
00:17:02.425 --> 00:17:06.805
Um, the 22nd Huntsville, Utah, 25th. Jackson.

520
00:17:06.805 --> 00:17:10.045
Jackson Hole, Wyoming, 26th. Pine Creek. Rich People.

521
00:17:10.265 --> 00:17:11.645
I'm excited. Livington Montana.

522
00:17:12.625 --> 00:17:16.165
Uh, Missoula, Montana on the 27th. Boise on the 28th.

523
00:17:16.585 --> 00:17:19.605
And then High Sierra Music Festival. Oh s**t.

524
00:17:19.775 --> 00:17:23.125
Three and four. Then I fly the fifth to Sherman, New York

525
00:17:23.225 --> 00:17:24.725
for Blue Heron Music

526
00:17:25.005 --> 00:17:26.005
Festival. That sounds fun.

527
00:17:26.005 --> 00:17:27.845
Long drives though.

528
00:17:28.115 --> 00:17:30.085
Long drives. But we Have ready Gonzo. We have the tour

529
00:17:30.085 --> 00:17:31.805
Bus or the bandwagon.

530
00:17:32.025 --> 00:17:33.605
Get ready. Gonzo. Gonzo. Get ready.

531
00:17:33.605 --> 00:17:34.805
You better put something on his poop.

532
00:17:35.065 --> 00:17:36.805
Eye of the tiger on baby Uber hand job

533
00:17:36.875 --> 00:17:38.485
card he's got going. Yeah. Better

534
00:17:38.485 --> 00:17:40.525
Start Lubing up that arm.

535
00:17:41.995 --> 00:17:45.285
It's so weird. He likes to beat off while driving. Wait,

536
00:17:45.285 --> 00:17:46.405
What? I didn't know this part.

537
00:17:46.665 --> 00:17:48.525
You don't know This? I only know about the him getting,

538
00:17:48.745 --> 00:17:50.205
He says it relaxes him.

539
00:17:51.395 --> 00:17:54.745
Yeah. I don't want my driver too relaxed.

540
00:17:55.665 --> 00:17:57.585
I mean, at night, you know, it's like, I get it.

541
00:17:57.585 --> 00:18:00.505
You drink seven cups of coffee. It's four in the morning.

542
00:18:00.575 --> 00:18:02.505
There's no one on the road crank one

543
00:18:02.505 --> 00:18:03.625
out. But I've never done that. We've all

544
00:18:03.625 --> 00:18:04.625
Been there. That's kind of weird. I mean, no,

545
00:18:04.625 --> 00:18:05.345
I haven't even, I've never

546
00:18:05.345 --> 00:18:06.345
Jerked off while driving.

547
00:18:06.725 --> 00:18:08.385
No, I'm looking at my phone.

548
00:18:08.495 --> 00:18:11.505
It's too busy to, I can't do three things. F*****g

549
00:18:11.515 --> 00:18:12.515
Weird.

550
00:18:12.565 --> 00:18:14.185
No, I didn't know about that. I knew about the other thing

551
00:18:14.185 --> 00:18:16.705
we talked about last time with the, uh, massage parlors.

552
00:18:17.045 --> 00:18:18.745
Oh yeah. He loves that too.

553
00:18:19.045 --> 00:18:20.225
Guy loves getting jerked off,

554
00:18:20.345 --> 00:18:21.385
I guess, no matter who does it.

555
00:18:23.045 --> 00:18:26.905
All right guys. Enjoy Tom Russell. Enjoy everything.

556
00:18:27.285 --> 00:18:29.265
And Nick, uh, cheer up. Charlie.

557
00:18:29.605 --> 00:18:31.305
I'm fine. What are you talking about? Cheer up.

558
00:18:31.485 --> 00:18:33.465
IOR was my nickname in high school though. You

559
00:18:33.465 --> 00:18:34.865
Do kind of, you are out sometimes.

560
00:18:35.285 --> 00:18:38.585
Why? If I brag about some types of money,

561
00:18:38.585 --> 00:18:39.825
like Oh, lucky you.

562
00:18:40.375 --> 00:18:42.465
I've never said that. I don't think I said Wow. Nice.

563
00:18:42.495 --> 00:18:43.945
When you told me about some gig you had

564
00:18:43.945 --> 00:18:45.105
yesterday. That's sick. Oh,

565
00:18:45.105 --> 00:18:46.505
Lucky you. I didn't say that.

566
00:18:46.505 --> 00:18:48.025
You're just making, now you're making s**t up.

567
00:18:48.245 --> 00:18:49.585
Ooh, just, oh, okay.

568
00:18:49.585 --> 00:18:52.785
Just wait for me while I, Andy put me in

569
00:18:52.785 --> 00:18:54.065
The closet. Andy wants to make

570
00:18:54.105 --> 00:18:55.105
A fake. That's so

571
00:18:55.105 --> 00:18:56.145
Funny's. Great movie though.

572
00:18:56.625 --> 00:18:58.185
I know. What's that movie called?

573
00:18:58.645 --> 00:18:59.825
Indian In the Cupboard. It's also

574
00:18:59.825 --> 00:19:01.225
famous children's book. It's a great

575
00:19:01.225 --> 00:19:02.145
Movie. Yeah.

576
00:19:02.535 --> 00:19:03.865
It's also a book. I don't,

577
00:19:03.945 --> 00:19:06.025
I hope you don't I don't feel that way towards It's

578
00:19:06.025 --> 00:19:07.025
A joke. We're on a podcast,

579
00:19:07.025 --> 00:19:07.905
Andy. I

580
00:19:07.905 --> 00:19:08.425
Know. I have to tell.

581
00:19:08.665 --> 00:19:11.105
I forgot you were sensitive. Yeah, everyone is.

582
00:19:11.585 --> 00:19:12.945
Everyone doesn't like me right now.

583
00:19:13.245 --> 00:19:16.585
Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, well. But they like you in

584
00:19:17.025 --> 00:19:17.745
Salaries. I'm being strict. Dad.

585
00:19:18.175 --> 00:19:19.785
What do you mean? I'm just Being stricter.

586
00:19:19.855 --> 00:19:20.985
Like, on the road. Like what?

587
00:19:20.985 --> 00:19:22.705
You have to be in bed by midnight or what?

588
00:19:23.285 --> 00:19:24.505
Not that district, but

589
00:19:24.505 --> 00:19:25.785
Like, like how strict can you be? They're adult.

590
00:19:25.925 --> 00:19:27.745
I'm just not partnering with them as much. Mm-hmm.

591
00:19:28.005 --> 00:19:29.665
You don't have to. It's actually good. Yeah.

592
00:19:30.015 --> 00:19:31.105
It's not a, it's a business

593
00:19:31.105 --> 00:19:32.105
Trying to lay down laws.

594
00:19:32.975 --> 00:19:34.785
Yeah. It's good to think about trying

595
00:19:34.785 --> 00:19:35.785
To keep us alive. Try to

596
00:19:35.785 --> 00:19:37.345
living past 75 or Yeah.

597
00:19:37.765 --> 00:19:39.065
Six. Trying to have that with the old band.

598
00:19:39.495 --> 00:19:41.225
Yeah. I don't think that's bad. Okay.

599
00:19:41.725 --> 00:19:42.705
I'm not mad at you at all.

600
00:19:42.885 --> 00:19:44.025
I'm not mad that you're making money.

601
00:19:44.185 --> 00:19:45.425
I don't know why you have this in your head.

602
00:19:45.425 --> 00:19:46.585
You think I'm out to get you. These

603
00:19:46.585 --> 00:19:47.785
Guys think I'm these Guys.

604
00:19:47.865 --> 00:19:49.785
I like when you do Well, I'm attached to you.

605
00:19:49.785 --> 00:19:51.025
So the better you do, the better.

606
00:19:51.025 --> 00:19:52.185
It's for me. Actually, this

607
00:19:52.185 --> 00:19:53.545
Is the thing about friendship, right?

608
00:19:54.205 --> 00:19:56.145
Is I'm not talking about you about this.

609
00:19:56.425 --> 00:19:57.905
I know. Just trying to, you did just

610
00:19:57.905 --> 00:19:58.945
Say you though, before that.

611
00:19:59.585 --> 00:20:01.905
I know. I It was a joke. Like you said. It's a

612
00:20:01.905 --> 00:20:02.585
Podcast. Okay.

613
00:20:03.365 --> 00:20:05.105
All right. I gotta go. Bye. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

614
00:20:05.105 --> 00:20:06.105
We're done.

615
00:20:10.685 --> 00:20:12.905
And we're live. You know, not every day we get

616
00:20:12.905 --> 00:20:14.265
to talk to a talent buyer.

617
00:20:14.765 --> 00:20:16.705
Um, we have Governor Ball,

618
00:20:17.765 --> 00:20:19.505
the are you the founder of Governor's Ball?

619
00:20:20.265 --> 00:20:22.065
I am a co-founder of Governor's Ball.

620
00:20:22.565 --> 00:20:25.785
Ladies and gentlemen, we have Tom Russell on the show.

621
00:20:25.955 --> 00:20:30.585
Co-founder. This isn't no ordinary f*****g jam band vessel.

622
00:20:30.695 --> 00:20:32.185
This is the real deal. Holy field.

623
00:20:32.185 --> 00:20:34.985
And we got Tom Russell baby. How you doing bud?

624
00:20:35.705 --> 00:20:37.065
I am hanging in there. How are you guys?

625
00:20:37.485 --> 00:20:38.665
I'm good. What's getting there?

626
00:20:38.895 --> 00:20:42.305
What is the, what's the dynamic like being a talent buyer

627
00:20:42.305 --> 00:20:43.385
in 2025?

628
00:20:44.435 --> 00:20:46.725
Well, I gotta, I gotta let you guys know

629
00:20:46.825 --> 00:20:47.925
I'm not a talent buyer.

630
00:20:48.405 --> 00:20:50.365
Oh, well, running a festival.

631
00:20:51.865 --> 00:20:55.405
Um, the festival space is really interesting right now.

632
00:20:55.935 --> 00:20:58.365
Feels like there's just so many of them. Right.

633
00:20:58.385 --> 00:21:01.285
It used to be, used to be just Bonnaroo. Mm-hmm.

634
00:21:01.365 --> 00:21:03.845
And, uh, God, what was that one called?

635
00:21:04.025 --> 00:21:08.405
Um, up where Electric Forest is now Rothbury, uh, Rothbury.

636
00:21:08.405 --> 00:21:11.525
Yeah. Yeah. That was it. Maybe gathering of the Vibes. Yeah.

637
00:21:11.825 --> 00:21:13.725
And then, you know, Lollapalooza

638
00:21:14.345 --> 00:21:15.365
and then Austin City Limits.

639
00:21:15.545 --> 00:21:17.445
So, you know, you had this rapid growth

640
00:21:17.785 --> 00:21:21.045
and nowadays I feel like every, um, primary market,

641
00:21:21.075 --> 00:21:23.405
secondary market and tertiary market has a festival.

642
00:21:24.175 --> 00:21:25.365
Right. Crowded space.

643
00:21:25.825 --> 00:21:28.605
So how do you, uh, how do you know what bands to pick

644
00:21:28.665 --> 00:21:29.725
for a bigger festival?

645
00:21:29.725 --> 00:21:31.485
Like then how big are these radius clauses?

646
00:21:32.345 --> 00:21:35.285
The radius clauses vary by, by show and market.

647
00:21:36.185 --> 00:21:38.125
My issue with New York City is

648
00:21:38.125 --> 00:21:40.245
that it's every band's best market. I know.

649
00:21:40.245 --> 00:21:41.845
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Every, Every artist

650
00:21:41.895 --> 00:21:43.165
wants to play here.

651
00:21:43.625 --> 00:21:45.165
So that means a couple things for me.

652
00:21:45.225 --> 00:21:47.085
It means that their talent fee is gonna be

653
00:21:48.025 --> 00:21:49.165
rather high, right?

654
00:21:49.165 --> 00:21:50.405
Mm-hmm. Right. Because they're giving up

655
00:21:50.405 --> 00:21:51.605
that New York City play.

656
00:21:52.265 --> 00:21:55.885
Um, and, you know, we're competing with the Garden

657
00:21:56.225 --> 00:21:57.245
and Barclay Center

658
00:21:57.425 --> 00:22:00.085
and, um, Brooklyn Paramount, Brooklyn Steel,

659
00:22:00.085 --> 00:22:01.365
all these amazing venues.

660
00:22:01.985 --> 00:22:04.485
And, you know, a lot of bands want their own look. Right.

661
00:22:04.485 --> 00:22:05.925
In a market like New York. Mm-hmm.

662
00:22:06.065 --> 00:22:07.325
So why For us at Gun Ball,

663
00:22:07.325 --> 00:22:08.765
it's just putting together the best package

664
00:22:08.795 --> 00:22:10.805
that we can to stand out.

665
00:22:11.005 --> 00:22:12.125
'cause we're, we're competing with,

666
00:22:12.145 --> 00:22:13.205
uh, the City of New York.

667
00:22:14.035 --> 00:22:15.125
Yeah. So what's, uh,

668
00:22:15.185 --> 00:22:17.965
what's your pitch on them not taking a, uh,

669
00:22:18.035 --> 00:22:19.125
Barclay Center show

670
00:22:19.125 --> 00:22:21.645
and taking a government's governor's ball offer?

671
00:22:22.345 --> 00:22:23.805
So it depends on the act, right?

672
00:22:23.825 --> 00:22:25.325
You, you pitch acts in different ways.

673
00:22:25.505 --> 00:22:29.245
But, um, if you're a headliner, I'd make the argument that,

674
00:22:29.625 --> 00:22:32.445
um, you are gonna be playing in front

675
00:22:32.625 --> 00:22:34.445
of 40 plus thousand people.

676
00:22:34.615 --> 00:22:36.965
Right. That's more people than the Garden Barclay Center.

677
00:22:37.065 --> 00:22:39.565
Mm-hmm. You're gonna be playing in front of an audience

678
00:22:39.635 --> 00:22:41.685
that includes your fans, but also others.

679
00:22:41.825 --> 00:22:44.205
Mm-hmm. So it's a great opportunity to gain new fans.

680
00:22:44.825 --> 00:22:47.245
And it's also a chance to play in a venue

681
00:22:47.355 --> 00:22:48.925
that very few people have played.

682
00:22:49.255 --> 00:22:50.845
Right. A couple years ago we moved

683
00:22:50.845 --> 00:22:54.405
to Flushing Meadows Corona Park, which is one

684
00:22:54.405 --> 00:22:55.525
of the nicest parks in the city.

685
00:22:55.995 --> 00:22:57.045
It's in Queens.

686
00:22:57.225 --> 00:23:00.485
And, uh, you know, it goes back to the, um, you know, early

687
00:23:00.505 --> 00:23:01.685
to mid 19 hundreds.

688
00:23:02.465 --> 00:23:04.485
And it's just an incredible, incredible venue.

689
00:23:04.945 --> 00:23:06.845
Uh, they had two world's fairs there.

690
00:23:06.845 --> 00:23:08.885
It's where that massive unisphere is. Mm-hmm.

691
00:23:08.965 --> 00:23:10.165
You're familiar with that? Yeah.

692
00:23:10.225 --> 00:23:13.285
Uh, so it's just a, a really, really vibey unique venue.

693
00:23:13.385 --> 00:23:16.125
And, uh, there's really a, a magic about it.

694
00:23:16.265 --> 00:23:18.525
And I think with any venue, whether it's in New York City

695
00:23:18.625 --> 00:23:21.005
or Denver or, or Topeka, right.

696
00:23:21.005 --> 00:23:23.005
There's a, there's a vibe in a room mm-hmm.

697
00:23:23.085 --> 00:23:25.565
Or a vibe in a park. And this, this park is rather vibey.

698
00:23:25.915 --> 00:23:27.605
When did this thing start blowing up?

699
00:23:27.725 --> 00:23:29.325
I know this was like a, you know, it's

700
00:23:29.415 --> 00:23:31.765
after how many years did it take for this thing

701
00:23:31.765 --> 00:23:33.285
to really become a thing in New York?

702
00:23:34.625 --> 00:23:37.805
So we started in 2011, and I,

703
00:23:37.945 --> 00:23:40.245
before that I worked at a company called Superfly.

704
00:23:40.305 --> 00:23:42.325
Oh yeah. We started Bonnaroo. Right.

705
00:23:42.545 --> 00:23:46.365
And, um, you know, so I had always wanted to kind

706
00:23:46.365 --> 00:23:48.765
of have my own festival in my, in my hometown.

707
00:23:49.545 --> 00:23:52.325
And, uh, in about 2010 we started to see this,

708
00:23:52.835 --> 00:23:56.565
this cultural shift toward festivals where, you know,

709
00:23:56.575 --> 00:23:57.765
bands wanted to play them more

710
00:23:57.765 --> 00:23:59.525
and fans wanted to experience festivals.

711
00:23:59.525 --> 00:24:02.325
And, um, you know, more and more of them were popping up

712
00:24:02.325 --> 00:24:03.325
and doing well.

713
00:24:04.025 --> 00:24:07.445
We were just coming outta the financial crisis. Right.

714
00:24:07.785 --> 00:24:09.765
And, um, it seemed like a good time

715
00:24:09.865 --> 00:24:11.765
to, you know, try it out.

716
00:24:12.145 --> 00:24:13.845
So I called up two buddies of mine

717
00:24:14.265 --> 00:24:16.325
and they were at similar places at their jobs.

718
00:24:16.545 --> 00:24:18.605
And, um, you know, we all left our jobs

719
00:24:18.745 --> 00:24:21.245
and made this our primary focus and launched in 2011.

720
00:24:21.665 --> 00:24:24.125
But it was super small. Yeah. Right.

721
00:24:24.125 --> 00:24:27.605
Where, you know, it's super, it was a 18,000 person event.

722
00:24:27.865 --> 00:24:30.565
Our headliners were Empire of the Sun,

723
00:24:30.865 --> 00:24:32.445
pretty Lights Girl Talk.

724
00:24:32.985 --> 00:24:35.605
Uh, it was pretty niche. I call it like party music. Mm-hmm.

725
00:24:35.685 --> 00:24:37.885
Electronic. But, you know, it's got a funky beat to it.

726
00:24:38.275 --> 00:24:41.365
It's fun. Yeah. And, uh, it was just different.

727
00:24:41.385 --> 00:24:42.525
So it was a one day event

728
00:24:43.345 --> 00:24:45.005
and it was a little bit of a proof of concept.

729
00:24:46.105 --> 00:24:48.325
And it worked. You know, we, we made a little bit

730
00:24:48.325 --> 00:24:50.125
of money enough to come back in year two.

731
00:24:50.905 --> 00:24:53.445
And then in year two we lost a little bit of money. Mm-hmm.

732
00:24:53.865 --> 00:24:55.005
And we were pretty much even,

733
00:24:55.625 --> 00:24:59.485
and we decided let's throw all of our chips in the middle

734
00:24:59.945 --> 00:25:01.645
and see if this thing works.

735
00:25:02.405 --> 00:25:04.885
'cause we always wanted to be that major music festival.

736
00:25:04.885 --> 00:25:07.525
Like a Lala or an ACL or Bon Roo. Yeah.

737
00:25:07.785 --> 00:25:11.125
So we, um, we quadrupled our talent budget more than that.

738
00:25:11.665 --> 00:25:13.805
Uh, we moved venues to a, a bigger venue

739
00:25:14.505 --> 00:25:16.405
and we went for some huge acts

740
00:25:16.465 --> 00:25:20.765
and we ended up booking, uh, Kings of Leon, Kanye West,

741
00:25:21.505 --> 00:25:24.365
uh, guns N Roses, the xx, Kendrick Lamar.

742
00:25:24.715 --> 00:25:26.325
Like, everything just kind of fell into place.

743
00:25:27.305 --> 00:25:28.885
And I think partially that was, uh,

744
00:25:28.995 --> 00:25:31.045
because it was a unique offer for the artists,

745
00:25:31.225 --> 00:25:32.645
but, you know, there was no dynamic

746
00:25:32.645 --> 00:25:33.845
ticketer pressing at that time.

747
00:25:34.375 --> 00:25:35.405
Right, right. Yeah.

748
00:25:35.405 --> 00:25:38.285
Some of these artists were able to, you know, get paid more

749
00:25:38.285 --> 00:25:40.485
to play the festival than they would play in the

750
00:25:40.485 --> 00:25:43.045
garden at Broccoli Center. Nowadays, it's not like that.

751
00:25:43.195 --> 00:25:45.085
Yeah. Do you think dynamic ticketing has

752
00:25:45.085 --> 00:25:46.645
f****d the festival scene?

753
00:25:47.995 --> 00:25:51.535
Um, it has made it harder to get some talent. Right.

754
00:25:51.595 --> 00:25:53.335
It used to be if bands really wanted to make money,

755
00:25:53.685 --> 00:25:54.975
they play a festival.

756
00:25:55.105 --> 00:25:58.695
Right. And, you know, nowadays you could play the garden

757
00:25:58.835 --> 00:26:00.335
and if you dynamically price your

758
00:26:00.335 --> 00:26:01.575
tickets, you can make more.

759
00:26:01.645 --> 00:26:04.415
Yeah. Or you play a stadium and you can make a lot more.

760
00:26:04.795 --> 00:26:06.775
Uh, so it's made it trickier to book artists.

761
00:26:07.515 --> 00:26:10.735
Um, I think what's unique to festivals is that festivals

762
00:26:11.265 --> 00:26:13.255
don't dynamically price their tickets.

763
00:26:14.055 --> 00:26:15.375
Right. Right. Right. You can't, they,

764
00:26:15.485 --> 00:26:17.615
that ticket price is on their website Yeah.

765
00:26:18.075 --> 00:26:20.135
For everybody to see. It's not changing. Yeah.

766
00:26:20.715 --> 00:26:22.335
So do you think like these, uh,

767
00:26:23.125 --> 00:26:24.455
tick not these Ticketmaster,

768
00:26:24.475 --> 00:26:26.895
but these companies that are like monopolizing

769
00:26:27.045 --> 00:26:28.055
with the promoters

770
00:26:28.055 --> 00:26:32.775
and with, do you think it's, it's f*****g up the growth

771
00:26:32.835 --> 00:26:34.455
of like, developing bands?

772
00:26:36.375 --> 00:26:38.715
Uh, it's a interesting question.

773
00:26:39.695 --> 00:26:40.875
And I'm not a talent buyer,

774
00:26:40.935 --> 00:26:42.835
so I'm not sure whether I'm best suited to answer this.

775
00:26:42.835 --> 00:26:45.805
But I will say this, when it comes to dynamic pricing,

776
00:26:46.355 --> 00:26:47.685
everybody's in the mix on it.

777
00:26:47.685 --> 00:26:48.965
Everybody knows what's happening. Yeah.

778
00:26:49.085 --> 00:26:50.125
Everyone's getting their f*****g pennies too.

779
00:26:50.125 --> 00:26:53.445
Right. The manager, the artist, the promoter, the venue.

780
00:26:53.515 --> 00:26:54.805
Like, everybody's getting a piece

781
00:26:54.805 --> 00:26:56.165
and everybody's signing off on it.

782
00:26:56.705 --> 00:26:58.605
So, you know, if it is making it harder,

783
00:26:58.755 --> 00:27:00.045
it's a collective decision

784
00:27:00.915 --> 00:27:01.915
Yeah. To do

785
00:27:01.915 --> 00:27:03.445
what's best for them. Right, right.

786
00:27:03.445 --> 00:27:05.765
And then, you know, what it does to the macro environment,

787
00:27:05.845 --> 00:27:08.565
I, I couldn't tell you, but I think, you know, as these,

788
00:27:09.185 --> 00:27:10.605
as these concert tickets get more

789
00:27:10.605 --> 00:27:12.765
and more expensive, I think festivals provide real value.

790
00:27:13.515 --> 00:27:14.745
Right. To see a shitload

791
00:27:14.745 --> 00:27:15.905
of bands for not that much money.

792
00:27:16.485 --> 00:27:18.745
And there's, you know, multiple payment plan options

793
00:27:18.805 --> 00:27:21.585
to spread out that cost and different ways to experience it.

794
00:27:22.165 --> 00:27:24.265
Um, I think, uh, you know,

795
00:27:24.325 --> 00:27:25.945
it gives really great bang for your buck.

796
00:27:27.005 --> 00:27:29.465
Do you think, uh, COVID f****d the, uh,

797
00:27:30.485 --> 00:27:32.825
the sleeping at the festival type of festival?

798
00:27:32.855 --> 00:27:33.855
Yeah.

799
00:27:34.965 --> 00:27:39.365
I think that more festivals popping up killed that. Yeah.

800
00:27:39.745 --> 00:27:41.125
Oh yeah. True. Supplying demand.

801
00:27:41.125 --> 00:27:42.885
Man, I think it used to be like the, the big camping

802
00:27:43.045 --> 00:27:44.645
festivals were the only major ones out there.

803
00:27:44.645 --> 00:27:47.325
Right. I mentioned Bonnaroo earlier in Rothbury. Yeah.

804
00:27:47.325 --> 00:27:49.245
Like, there weren't that many festivals around at that time.

805
00:27:49.545 --> 00:27:51.485
And if you wanted to see a sick jam band

806
00:27:51.725 --> 00:27:53.525
festival, those are your options. Right.

807
00:27:53.525 --> 00:27:54.765
Yeah, Totally. Nowadays music,

808
00:27:55.015 --> 00:27:56.765
music tastes have evolved a lot.

809
00:27:57.585 --> 00:28:01.245
Um, there's a festival in every market, so it's a heck

810
00:28:01.245 --> 00:28:02.765
of a lot cheaper to go see a show,

811
00:28:03.045 --> 00:28:05.565
a festival in New York City than it is to, you know,

812
00:28:05.585 --> 00:28:08.245
get in a car, rent a car, drive down to Bonnaroo,

813
00:28:08.465 --> 00:28:09.685
or a camping festival

814
00:28:10.105 --> 00:28:12.685
and, you know, camp out for four nights. Just easier.

815
00:28:13.105 --> 00:28:14.445
And it's more comfortable. Yeah.

816
00:28:14.445 --> 00:28:16.045
And it's more comfortable to go hang out.

817
00:28:16.555 --> 00:28:18.725
Exactly. A much different experience though. Right.

818
00:28:18.725 --> 00:28:20.165
Not to knock Bonnaroo. 'cause that's, you know, right.

819
00:28:20.165 --> 00:28:22.045
Those are my roots right there. And I think that festival's,

820
00:28:22.185 --> 00:28:24.525
you know, one of the best of all time, it's just, uh,

821
00:28:24.525 --> 00:28:25.525
it's just so different.

822
00:28:25.665 --> 00:28:27.765
And it, it's a different financial expenditure.

823
00:28:28.195 --> 00:28:31.525
Emotional expenditure, and, uh, just different vibe.

824
00:28:32.265 --> 00:28:35.845
Is there beef between Bonnaroo and Governor's Ball?

825
00:28:35.845 --> 00:28:37.605
There's like a Tupac Biggie beef.

826
00:28:37.845 --> 00:28:39.565
There's like, were they p****d

827
00:28:39.565 --> 00:28:40.725
that you started your own festival?

828
00:28:40.765 --> 00:28:43.325
Prodigal son? Like is there's, give us some dirt

829
00:28:43.595 --> 00:28:45.165
with owner to owner. Right.

830
00:28:45.825 --> 00:28:50.565
So I was at Superfly from 2006 to 2010.

831
00:28:51.265 --> 00:28:53.925
Um, I went to school at Tulane in New Orleans. Oh yeah.

832
00:28:54.225 --> 00:28:56.485
And that's where my musical taste really expanded.

833
00:28:57.145 --> 00:28:59.365
And, uh, prior to my freshman year, I went

834
00:28:59.365 --> 00:29:02.165
to the first Bonnaroo had the best time of my life.

835
00:29:02.465 --> 00:29:04.925
And I said, I gotta, I gotta do this for my profession.

836
00:29:05.085 --> 00:29:06.925
I gotta intern at this company. Where are they based?

837
00:29:07.385 --> 00:29:09.845
And it turned out that Superfly was based in New Orleans

838
00:29:10.655 --> 00:29:11.885
where I was about to go to school.

839
00:29:12.065 --> 00:29:13.605
So I begged them for an internship

840
00:29:13.745 --> 00:29:16.605
and eventually got one, worked there for a, you know,

841
00:29:16.765 --> 00:29:19.565
a good bit of time and learned the tricks

842
00:29:19.565 --> 00:29:21.365
of the trade when it comes to festivals.

843
00:29:22.225 --> 00:29:23.365
Um, and it got to the point

844
00:29:23.365 --> 00:29:24.405
where I wanted to start my own thing.

845
00:29:24.405 --> 00:29:26.885
So I went to my boss and I said, I wanna start my own thing.

846
00:29:26.985 --> 00:29:28.205
And he goes, it's really risky.

847
00:29:29.025 --> 00:29:31.645
And then I said to him, can you guarantee me

848
00:29:31.645 --> 00:29:32.845
that I'll make a hundred thousand

849
00:29:32.845 --> 00:29:34.085
dollars by the time I'm 30?

850
00:29:35.385 --> 00:29:36.525
Oh, yeah. You were young when you

851
00:29:36.525 --> 00:29:37.605
were with them, right? Like 26.

852
00:29:37.605 --> 00:29:39.605
Yeah, I was, yeah. I was in my younger twenties. Yeah.

853
00:29:39.745 --> 00:29:41.845
And he, he said, I think I can get you there,

854
00:29:41.845 --> 00:29:42.845
but I can't put it in writing.

855
00:29:43.185 --> 00:29:46.485
Wow. So I said, you know what, if you're not gonna do that,

856
00:29:46.515 --> 00:29:48.365
then I'm gonna go, I'm gonna try this thing out.

857
00:29:48.885 --> 00:29:49.965
'cause I knew that if it failed,

858
00:29:50.115 --> 00:29:51.765
like I could maybe get a job back at

859
00:29:51.765 --> 00:29:53.125
Superfly or I could figure it out.

860
00:29:53.225 --> 00:29:54.245
And you're Young. Um,

861
00:29:54.825 --> 00:29:57.285
and I was pretty young, so, you know,

862
00:29:57.445 --> 00:29:58.485
I left and I tried it out.

863
00:29:58.485 --> 00:30:00.605
But those guys were all super supportive.

864
00:30:00.905 --> 00:30:04.085
And I learned everything I know in this industry

865
00:30:04.275 --> 00:30:05.485
from my Superfly days.

866
00:30:05.485 --> 00:30:07.765
Right. So working on Bonnaroo and outside Lands,

867
00:30:08.065 --> 00:30:11.085
and at that time the industry was so different, you know,

868
00:30:11.085 --> 00:30:12.845
it was the, everybody was independent

869
00:30:13.425 --> 00:30:15.645
and it was real, it was a real family.

870
00:30:16.215 --> 00:30:18.805
Right. And, you know, there, there was no hiding of info.

871
00:30:18.805 --> 00:30:19.925
Everybody was in it together.

872
00:30:20.315 --> 00:30:22.365
Everybody was emotionally attached.

873
00:30:22.545 --> 00:30:24.685
And, um, you know, when I left, they,

874
00:30:25.075 --> 00:30:26.645
they were always very supportive.

875
00:30:26.825 --> 00:30:28.645
And I'm still such close friends with, uh,

876
00:30:28.645 --> 00:30:30.725
the Superfly guys who've moved on from Bonnaroo.

877
00:30:30.795 --> 00:30:33.525
Yeah. Um, and I'm super close with the, the folks

878
00:30:33.525 --> 00:30:34.685
who currently run Bonnaroo.

879
00:30:34.725 --> 00:30:36.125
I still go every year. Yeah.

880
00:30:36.125 --> 00:30:37.285
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.

881
00:30:37.285 --> 00:30:39.805
Richard Slavin's, one of my, uh, old managers.

882
00:30:40.435 --> 00:30:43.285
Cool. And, uh, so it's like learning about the,

883
00:30:43.305 --> 00:30:44.965
I'm learning about the dynamics between,

884
00:30:45.035 --> 00:30:48.125
because my question is, when you're taking that step

885
00:30:48.545 --> 00:30:50.005
to make it a bigger festival,

886
00:30:50.005 --> 00:30:51.325
and you're tripling your budget,

887
00:30:51.985 --> 00:30:53.485
how you getting funding for this?

888
00:30:53.945 --> 00:30:56.525
Who, who's saying yes to this? Like, what the f**k?

889
00:30:56.525 --> 00:30:58.005
You're like, I got this big idea.

890
00:30:58.165 --> 00:31:00.165
I want to get these bigger bands who's saying yes

891
00:31:00.165 --> 00:31:01.565
to stuff in the riskiest industry in the world?

892
00:31:01.595 --> 00:31:02.925
It's the riskiest f*****g thing on the

893
00:31:02.925 --> 00:31:04.245
planet who's saying yes to this?

894
00:31:04.745 --> 00:31:06.365
All right. So when I, when we started Gov Ball,

895
00:31:06.385 --> 00:31:09.005
we put together a 12 page business plan.

896
00:31:09.355 --> 00:31:13.005
Yeah. Talked about the rise of music festivals.

897
00:31:13.465 --> 00:31:14.965
We talked about how we were, you know,

898
00:31:14.965 --> 00:31:16.925
in the US we're all just following what they do in Europe.

899
00:31:17.095 --> 00:31:19.365
Right. We're always a few years behind them. Yeah. Right.

900
00:31:19.465 --> 00:31:20.965
Uh, and at that time, there were

901
00:31:20.965 --> 00:31:22.365
so many festivals doing well in Europe.

902
00:31:22.865 --> 00:31:25.205
So, you know, I crafted the, we crafted this business plan

903
00:31:25.205 --> 00:31:26.725
that, that showed that, you know,

904
00:31:26.965 --> 00:31:28.125
festivals were a growing segment.

905
00:31:28.785 --> 00:31:31.285
Um, these city festivals specifically were doing great,

906
00:31:31.285 --> 00:31:32.805
but New York City didn't have one.

907
00:31:33.305 --> 00:31:35.965
Uh, we did an analysis of the bands that we wanted to get

908
00:31:36.025 --> 00:31:38.245
and their ticket sales history in the market, you know,

909
00:31:38.285 --> 00:31:41.325
a pretty well thought out business plan, um, showed it

910
00:31:41.345 --> 00:31:43.205
to basically friends and family.

911
00:31:43.785 --> 00:31:47.125
And we raised 700 grand for year one. Wow.

912
00:31:47.545 --> 00:31:49.845
And we used that money to launch the festival.

913
00:31:50.305 --> 00:31:54.325
Now that money would not have covered us if, uh,

914
00:31:54.385 --> 00:31:55.565
if s**t really hit the fan.

915
00:31:57.065 --> 00:31:59.125
So, yeah. Right. You know, we raised as much as we could.

916
00:31:59.505 --> 00:32:00.685
We booked the bands, we went on

917
00:32:00.685 --> 00:32:01.765
sale, and we hoped for the best.

918
00:32:01.865 --> 00:32:03.805
And we were really, really lucky. Right.

919
00:32:04.225 --> 00:32:05.965
On year two when we lost the money,

920
00:32:06.385 --> 00:32:07.565
we had to get a bridge loan.

921
00:32:08.225 --> 00:32:10.525
Um, and that carried us through

922
00:32:10.585 --> 00:32:12.405
to year three when we went on sale.

923
00:32:13.225 --> 00:32:16.845
And for year three, you know, when we had that big lineup,

924
00:32:17.745 --> 00:32:19.365
um, you know, we were really, all

925
00:32:19.365 --> 00:32:20.365
of our asses were on the line.

926
00:32:20.845 --> 00:32:23.205
'cause if it didn't go well, we were already in debt. Right.

927
00:32:23.315 --> 00:32:24.365
It's over. Yeah. And, you know, we'd have

928
00:32:24.365 --> 00:32:26.645
to pull the show down, negotiate with these agents

929
00:32:26.745 --> 00:32:30.245
for a kill fee and, you know, just eggs on our faces.

930
00:32:30.985 --> 00:32:33.045
Um, but it worked out.

931
00:32:33.045 --> 00:32:35.765
We sold a lot of tickets and since then, it's kind of been,

932
00:32:35.785 --> 00:32:38.325
uh, you know, not smooth sailing by any means,

933
00:32:38.385 --> 00:32:40.365
but, um, we've been growing and doing well.

934
00:32:41.145 --> 00:32:44.885
People don't realize how f*****g expensive it it is

935
00:32:44.905 --> 00:32:47.205
to start have a festival, to make a festival.

936
00:32:47.395 --> 00:32:49.165
It's people think the promo, the,

937
00:32:49.185 --> 00:32:51.085
the owners are just making a s**t ton of money.

938
00:32:51.305 --> 00:32:53.685
Why don't you break it down how expensive it really is

939
00:32:53.985 --> 00:32:55.085
to put on a festival.

940
00:32:56.585 --> 00:32:59.765
Um, this year's gov ball will cost 25

941
00:32:59.765 --> 00:33:02.125
to $26 million at the total expense.

942
00:33:02.125 --> 00:33:04.725
F*****g Christ. Yeah.

943
00:33:05.035 --> 00:33:06.405
What, so what, what's the most,

944
00:33:06.425 --> 00:33:09.405
what's your most expensive stuff outside of talent? It

945
00:33:09.795 --> 00:33:11.405
Typically you are gonna go,

946
00:33:11.405 --> 00:33:12.885
you're gonna see like half talent,

947
00:33:13.355 --> 00:33:14.845
half production and operations.

948
00:33:15.055 --> 00:33:18.045
Right. You know, and then it really falls off.

949
00:33:18.045 --> 00:33:20.765
And then you get to, you know, marketing, um,

950
00:33:21.075 --> 00:33:22.445
insurance, stuff like that.

951
00:33:22.905 --> 00:33:25.285
But site operate, site production,

952
00:33:25.285 --> 00:33:26.965
and then talent really, um,

953
00:33:26.965 --> 00:33:28.405
comprise the bulk of the expenses.

954
00:33:28.905 --> 00:33:31.285
You gotta be a real crazy person to f*****g

955
00:33:31.875 --> 00:33:33.565
have the balls to do this.

956
00:33:33.665 --> 00:33:35.965
Tom, this is, maybe we should put you in charge

957
00:33:35.965 --> 00:33:37.045
of the federal government budget.

958
00:33:37.405 --> 00:33:38.605
Yeah. Maybe we should put you. Yeah.

959
00:33:38.625 --> 00:33:40.605
You should be our guy. Sounds like you know what

960
00:33:40.605 --> 00:33:41.605
You're doing. I mean, look, I don't

961
00:33:41.605 --> 00:33:42.245
know if you want somebody

962
00:33:42.245 --> 00:33:43.405
that's gonna take a crazy risk,

963
00:33:43.405 --> 00:33:45.205
like literally putting your ass on the line

964
00:33:45.435 --> 00:33:46.685
Yeah. But is like

965
00:33:47.405 --> 00:33:48.405
Yeah. Yeah. Who Happens.

966
00:33:48.405 --> 00:33:49.485
Yeah. Whoops.

967
00:33:49.745 --> 00:33:52.165
Um, but you know, I think everybody who, um, you know,

968
00:33:52.165 --> 00:33:53.325
everybody, you gotta take a swing.

969
00:33:53.395 --> 00:33:54.765
Yeah. Yeah. You gotta try it.

970
00:33:54.985 --> 00:33:58.165
You know, my coming from the Bonnaroo days, you know,

971
00:33:58.545 --> 00:34:00.805
and the, especially in the early days, it was such, um,

972
00:34:01.265 --> 00:34:03.645
you know, there's real magic at these festivals.

973
00:34:03.715 --> 00:34:05.805
Yeah. Especially in Bonnaroo. Mm-hmm.

974
00:34:05.985 --> 00:34:07.605
And I think I was just bit by that bug

975
00:34:07.625 --> 00:34:11.365
and I was just so driven to bring my hometown

976
00:34:11.365 --> 00:34:13.485
of New York City a music festival

977
00:34:13.485 --> 00:34:15.005
because there's no reason why New York City

978
00:34:15.005 --> 00:34:16.045
shouldn't have its own festival.

979
00:34:16.325 --> 00:34:20.605
I agree. Yeah. Like, um, 8 million people. Right. Yeah.

980
00:34:20.765 --> 00:34:22.885
I didn't really know at that time that like, you know,

981
00:34:22.995 --> 00:34:24.285
it's such an expensive city

982
00:34:24.345 --> 00:34:26.205
and like you're competing against every

983
00:34:26.205 --> 00:34:27.325
amazing venue in the city.

984
00:34:27.325 --> 00:34:28.445
Yeah. Because there's just so much

985
00:34:28.445 --> 00:34:29.485
good programming at all times.

986
00:34:29.675 --> 00:34:33.325
Yeah. And that's why in 2013, we just put together a lineup

987
00:34:33.325 --> 00:34:36.485
that was so big that people just couldn't say no to it.

988
00:34:36.695 --> 00:34:38.925
Right. That's, it's, yeah. It's insane.

989
00:34:39.035 --> 00:34:41.205
It's like, I feel like Coachella too,

990
00:34:41.205 --> 00:34:45.235
before Coachella, what was California's festival mm-hmm.

991
00:34:45.415 --> 00:34:47.315
Didn't Have much. So why is it, why is,

992
00:34:47.375 --> 00:34:48.595
are people intimidated

993
00:34:49.095 --> 00:34:51.595
to put these festivals in these 20 million,

994
00:34:51.735 --> 00:34:53.635
20 million people Cities?

995
00:34:53.635 --> 00:34:54.755
Marcus? Yeah. Marcus.

996
00:34:55.665 --> 00:34:58.755
Well, I think most bigger markets have festivals nowadays.

997
00:34:59.375 --> 00:35:02.395
Um, and it's so expensive that if you're,

998
00:35:03.055 --> 00:35:05.635
if you're like a day-to-day promoter Right.

999
00:35:05.815 --> 00:35:08.795
You know, booking, you know, venues from 500 people

1000
00:35:08.935 --> 00:35:10.675
to let's just say 20,000,

1001
00:35:11.735 --> 00:35:14.435
the the risk is just not nearly as high as a festival.

1002
00:35:14.435 --> 00:35:15.795
Mm-hmm. You could launch a festival

1003
00:35:16.215 --> 00:35:18.635
and have crap ticket sales and lose millions of dollars

1004
00:35:18.695 --> 00:35:20.915
and that would just sink your entire year or your company.

1005
00:35:21.135 --> 00:35:22.395
Mm-hmm. So,

1006
00:35:22.495 --> 00:35:24.195
and I think that keeps a lot of the, the folks

1007
00:35:24.195 --> 00:35:25.515
that are in the territory business

1008
00:35:25.515 --> 00:35:27.755
or day-to-day booking business out at festivals.

1009
00:35:27.835 --> 00:35:30.115
'cause it's such a, a scary thing. Mm-hmm.

1010
00:35:30.335 --> 00:35:33.475
Um, and, you know, it also takes talent out of their rooms.

1011
00:35:34.815 --> 00:35:36.555
So, you know, they, they wanna keep the good

1012
00:35:36.555 --> 00:35:37.740
talent going to their rooms.

1013
00:35:37.935 --> 00:35:40.765
Right. Um, but it's such, it's such a big risk

1014
00:35:41.505 --> 00:35:43.805
and, uh, it just takes a, a certain type

1015
00:35:43.805 --> 00:35:45.245
of, a certain type of person.

1016
00:35:45.505 --> 00:35:47.525
And nowadays, like the, the cash flow

1017
00:35:48.345 --> 00:35:51.565
has really changed in terms of the, the needs for cash flow.

1018
00:35:51.715 --> 00:35:54.485
Like when we started, we raised 700 grand.

1019
00:35:55.385 --> 00:35:59.765
We had to pay the artists 25% upon confirming. Mm.

1020
00:36:00.105 --> 00:36:01.205
Oh my god. Damn

1021
00:36:01.295 --> 00:36:02.295
Right. Nowadays,

1022
00:36:02.295 --> 00:36:03.565
if you're an independent,

1023
00:36:03.695 --> 00:36:05.205
especially if nobody knows you, you have

1024
00:36:05.205 --> 00:36:07.125
to pay a hundred percent upon confirming. Yeah.

1025
00:36:07.125 --> 00:36:09.965
Wow. Right. So that can, could immediately

1026
00:36:10.675 --> 00:36:13.245
prevent you from, from moving forward right then and there.

1027
00:36:13.245 --> 00:36:14.685
Right. Yeah. We just so happened to,

1028
00:36:15.065 --> 00:36:19.005
to be at an earlier time in the, the US festival evolution

1029
00:36:19.185 --> 00:36:21.005
before festivals started canceling

1030
00:36:21.625 --> 00:36:23.525
and promoters started keeping people's money

1031
00:36:23.865 --> 00:36:25.845
or agents didn't get paid. Right. Right.

1032
00:36:26.595 --> 00:36:29.885
Yeah. Now it's like I normally see in my deals, uh,

1033
00:36:29.995 --> 00:36:33.685
when it's a really well-known festival, it's either half

1034
00:36:33.705 --> 00:36:35.445
or just the agent's fee.

1035
00:36:35.775 --> 00:36:37.045
Right. Is that still the same?

1036
00:36:37.715 --> 00:36:42.485
Yeah. Yeah. My question is when you're,

1037
00:36:42.485 --> 00:36:44.285
you're, you're a jam head, right?

1038
00:36:44.335 --> 00:36:46.125
We've I see the fish. Yeah. Yep.

1039
00:36:46.585 --> 00:36:49.805
Um, what do you, what's the, what do you think the state of

1040
00:36:49.805 --> 00:36:51.925
that industry is in 2000

1041
00:36:52.105 --> 00:36:53.045
Jam scene? Yeah.

1042
00:36:53.045 --> 00:36:55.405
Yeah. It's kind of dying, right? Um, yeah.

1043
00:36:55.425 --> 00:36:57.885
Is it, is there still one Yeah,

1044
00:36:58.395 --> 00:37:00.045
It's kind of fragmented a bit.

1045
00:37:00.775 --> 00:37:03.885
Right? Um, you know, Phish is still doing big numbers.

1046
00:37:04.255 --> 00:37:05.445
Goose is doing big numbers.

1047
00:37:06.385 --> 00:37:07.685
You know, you have bands that used

1048
00:37:07.685 --> 00:37:09.365
to do much bigger numbers like Mo

1049
00:37:09.365 --> 00:37:11.605
and String Cheese just doing, you know, different numbers.

1050
00:37:12.345 --> 00:37:13.805
Um, but I think there's still that,

1051
00:37:14.075 --> 00:37:16.245
that die hard fan base out there.

1052
00:37:16.265 --> 00:37:18.365
Mm-hmm. Right. You see like widespread panic

1053
00:37:18.505 --> 00:37:22.405
or string cheese going to markets and doing three night runs

1054
00:37:22.585 --> 00:37:24.365
and selling out immediately at a high ticket price.

1055
00:37:24.545 --> 00:37:27.045
Mm-hmm. Um, I think, you know,

1056
00:37:27.045 --> 00:37:29.045
that it'll be more regional touring.

1057
00:37:29.505 --> 00:37:32.245
Um, and there was like 5,000 cap rooms, three

1058
00:37:32.245 --> 00:37:35.165
to 5,000 cap rooms as opposed to the, you know,

1059
00:37:35.165 --> 00:37:36.565
the gardens or the arenas

1060
00:37:37.345 --> 00:37:41.845
Do blame that on fatigue them playing in every market,

1061
00:37:42.035 --> 00:37:43.405
playing every festival.

1062
00:37:44.355 --> 00:37:47.175
Do you think fatigue is part of that downside?

1063
00:37:48.185 --> 00:37:50.465
I don't know if it's fatigue. I think part of it is just,

1064
00:37:50.565 --> 00:37:52.705
um, you know, musical taste and evolution.

1065
00:37:52.815 --> 00:37:54.985
Yeah. Yeah. And how people consume music.

1066
00:37:55.565 --> 00:37:58.025
And it's just so, uh, there's just

1067
00:37:58.025 --> 00:37:59.185
so much out there nowadays.

1068
00:37:59.355 --> 00:38:00.705
Right. Right. There's so much

1069
00:38:00.705 --> 00:38:02.585
to choose from in terms of, in terms of music.

1070
00:38:02.605 --> 00:38:04.985
And also, you know, I've seen Phish a few times,

1071
00:38:05.095 --> 00:38:07.825
seen Weiser panic a few times our bullets.

1072
00:38:07.845 --> 00:38:10.065
And after the 105th show

1073
00:38:10.085 --> 00:38:12.905
or whatever it is, you're like, you know, I got two kids

1074
00:38:13.005 --> 00:38:16.105
and I wanna watch a TV show on a Friday night maybe,

1075
00:38:16.205 --> 00:38:19.305
and sleep as opposed to go see my 120th

1076
00:38:19.305 --> 00:38:20.345
show or whatever. It's,

1077
00:38:20.805 --> 00:38:22.625
I'm, I'm not going to Indiana again

1078
00:38:22.625 --> 00:38:24.545
to go see F*****g Fish brother.

1079
00:38:26.765 --> 00:38:28.785
Um, I don't care how good the grilled cheese is. Yeah.

1080
00:38:29.295 --> 00:38:31.025
Tell me a little bit of your take

1081
00:38:31.025 --> 00:38:32.865
of why the EDM scene blew up.

1082
00:38:34.045 --> 00:38:36.445
Um, you know, I think similar to Jam Scene, it's a,

1083
00:38:36.445 --> 00:38:40.645
it's a real family community oriented, um, fan base.

1084
00:38:41.465 --> 00:38:43.845
And, you know, people rally around that.

1085
00:38:44.025 --> 00:38:48.865
And I think, you know, similarly, I don't know, I don't know

1086
00:38:48.865 --> 00:38:50.225
that every, any show is the same.

1087
00:38:50.735 --> 00:38:53.105
Yeah. Right. I think that beauty of Jam bands is

1088
00:38:53.105 --> 00:38:54.425
that every show is different.

1089
00:38:54.485 --> 00:38:55.905
You never really know what you're gonna get.

1090
00:38:55.905 --> 00:38:57.825
And I think with electronic music, it's pretty similar

1091
00:38:58.325 --> 00:38:59.425
and there's a, a magic

1092
00:38:59.485 --> 00:39:02.345
and a specialness to, to those sorts of environments.

1093
00:39:02.725 --> 00:39:04.905
You can go see an indie rock band they put on an amazing

1094
00:39:04.905 --> 00:39:06.105
show, but it's the same show every night.

1095
00:39:06.115 --> 00:39:07.945
Right? Yeah. Same key and same energy bills,

1096
00:39:08.015 --> 00:39:09.145
same releases, all of that.

1097
00:39:09.295 --> 00:39:11.585
Yeah. With Jam and, and Electronic.

1098
00:39:12.485 --> 00:39:14.425
Um, you just never know what you're gonna get.

1099
00:39:14.485 --> 00:39:16.825
You get the good, the bad, the ugly, um,

1100
00:39:16.925 --> 00:39:19.025
or the epic that you'll never ever forget.

1101
00:39:19.045 --> 00:39:22.065
And I think that's what's, what's, um, led

1102
00:39:22.065 --> 00:39:24.745
to the staying power of, um, of those genres.

1103
00:39:25.095 --> 00:39:26.745
With that being said, Why are

1104
00:39:26.745 --> 00:39:28.385
There not as many of those type

1105
00:39:28.385 --> 00:39:29.665
of bands on Governor's Ball?

1106
00:39:30.925 --> 00:39:35.105
So we aren't as big of a festival as we need to be

1107
00:39:35.125 --> 00:39:36.345
to feature more genres?

1108
00:39:36.415 --> 00:39:40.225
Yeah. So when we started Gov Ball, we had this kind

1109
00:39:40.225 --> 00:39:44.545
of like indie, indie, electronic pop

1110
00:39:45.295 --> 00:39:48.065
rock rap mix, what I used to call party music.

1111
00:39:48.205 --> 00:39:49.825
Mm-hmm. Right. A funky beat.

1112
00:39:49.935 --> 00:39:52.585
It's upbeat, it's fun stuff you wanna hear at a party.

1113
00:39:52.925 --> 00:39:55.665
And then we expanded it in 2013 to feature hip hop

1114
00:39:55.725 --> 00:39:57.105
and indie rock and folk and all,

1115
00:39:57.105 --> 00:39:58.625
and electronic and all these genres.

1116
00:39:58.625 --> 00:40:01.145
We wanted to be that eclectic multi genre festival

1117
00:40:01.145 --> 00:40:03.745
that Bonnaroo Lala, ACL,

1118
00:40:04.055 --> 00:40:05.625
Glastonbury, all these other festivals were.

1119
00:40:06.645 --> 00:40:07.665
Uh, and we did great.

1120
00:40:08.045 --> 00:40:12.065
But as time went on, um, we started to, um,

1121
00:40:12.165 --> 00:40:13.585
see less demand for our tickets.

1122
00:40:14.525 --> 00:40:16.665
And we looked at the lineup and we said, you know what?

1123
00:40:17.435 --> 00:40:18.705
Maybe we need to take a little bit

1124
00:40:18.705 --> 00:40:19.905
of a, of a different direction.

1125
00:40:19.905 --> 00:40:22.905
Mm-hmm. Maybe for the EDM fan, you can't just have

1126
00:40:23.485 --> 00:40:24.545
one or two bands a day.

1127
00:40:25.275 --> 00:40:28.065
Maybe you need to have four or five or six bands a day.

1128
00:40:28.155 --> 00:40:31.545
Right. But we only have four stages, right? Mm-hmm.

1129
00:40:31.625 --> 00:40:33.185
So we don't have enough stages

1130
00:40:33.565 --> 00:40:36.025
and space to feature enough of every genre.

1131
00:40:36.715 --> 00:40:39.305
Right. And that's why, you know, that we went

1132
00:40:39.305 --> 00:40:40.625
through like a little bit of a hip hop period

1133
00:40:40.625 --> 00:40:42.825
where we're kind of honing in on hip hop Now I think we're

1134
00:40:43.065 --> 00:40:45.745
honing in a little bit more on kind of pop mm-hmm.

1135
00:40:46.055 --> 00:40:47.185
Rock. Um,

1136
00:40:47.965 --> 00:40:51.065
and you know, you look at Lala, they have, what,

1137
00:40:51.115 --> 00:40:52.425
eight, 10 stages, right?

1138
00:40:52.425 --> 00:40:53.945
110,000 people a day.

1139
00:40:54.175 --> 00:40:56.985
They have enough programming slots to feature everything

1140
00:40:57.325 --> 00:40:59.305
and to have enough to sell a ticket

1141
00:40:59.365 --> 00:41:01.225
to those dedicated genre fans.

1142
00:41:01.285 --> 00:41:03.945
Mm-hmm. But for me, I don't have as many slots,

1143
00:41:03.945 --> 00:41:07.505
so I gotta kind of really hone in on a, a lane, if you will.

1144
00:41:07.655 --> 00:41:09.465
Yeah. And, and that's been beneficial.

1145
00:41:09.475 --> 00:41:11.905
We've seen that, uh, the results of that, uh, positively

1146
00:41:12.175 --> 00:41:13.985
Kind of kinda like ACL, right? Yeah.

1147
00:41:14.695 --> 00:41:16.345
Yeah. Absolutely. ACL.

1148
00:41:16.445 --> 00:41:18.945
Uh, but ACL is much bigger and they do have more stages,

1149
00:41:19.045 --> 00:41:21.145
but I think Texas is just a unique animal

1150
00:41:21.485 --> 00:41:24.305
and they have that ACL brand has,

1151
00:41:24.565 --> 00:41:26.345
was alive well before the festival.

1152
00:41:26.395 --> 00:41:30.105
Right. Had a, you know, a, a big fan base of, of folks

1153
00:41:30.105 --> 00:41:34.085
who just appreciated songwriting and folk and Americana.

1154
00:41:34.585 --> 00:41:36.525
Um, they, they, they have it all.

1155
00:41:36.625 --> 00:41:37.805
But, uh, I think Lala

1156
00:41:38.105 --> 00:41:39.965
or Bonnaroo, you're just gonna see every

1157
00:41:39.965 --> 00:41:41.205
single genre under the sun.

1158
00:41:41.625 --> 00:41:43.085
Not a lot of Jewish bands in Texas.

1159
00:41:45.365 --> 00:41:46.645
I can say it, I'm Jewish, whatever.

1160
00:41:46.965 --> 00:41:49.885
Um, my que you know, you, you last year had my,

1161
00:41:49.885 --> 00:41:51.285
my best friends who I tour with a lot,

1162
00:41:51.405 --> 00:41:54.205
little stranger on the tour on uh, governor's Ball.

1163
00:41:54.345 --> 00:41:58.925
And, uh, they said how unique the experience is when

1164
00:41:59.065 --> 00:42:01.685
as you're curating for years on, I'm wondering,

1165
00:42:01.685 --> 00:42:04.125
was there any year that you just totally lost your ass,

1166
00:42:06.425 --> 00:42:07.565
Um, with Gov Ball?

1167
00:42:07.865 --> 00:42:12.085
No, we've been lucky in that, um, you know,

1168
00:42:12.345 --> 00:42:14.085
we only had that loss in year two.

1169
00:42:14.825 --> 00:42:18.685
Um, and it was a small one and we've been okay since then.

1170
00:42:18.805 --> 00:42:20.525
I think part of that is because of the market

1171
00:42:20.905 --> 00:42:21.965
and just the brand power.

1172
00:42:22.155 --> 00:42:24.285
Like we've been able to make up any shortcomings

1173
00:42:24.285 --> 00:42:26.885
and ticket sales with, um, partner activations

1174
00:42:26.885 --> 00:42:28.125
and sponsors mm-hmm.

1175
00:42:28.675 --> 00:42:30.565
Kind of creatively. Um,

1176
00:42:31.705 --> 00:42:34.765
but I have put on other shows that have, uh, have bombed

1177
00:42:35.075 --> 00:42:36.805
Well, gimme, gimme them, gimme a Yeah.

1178
00:42:36.805 --> 00:42:38.245
We want some stories. We want some stories

1179
00:42:38.245 --> 00:42:39.445
in some s****y situ.

1180
00:42:39.825 --> 00:42:40.725
We love Failure on this book. We

1181
00:42:40.725 --> 00:42:41.645
love failure on this podcast.

1182
00:42:42.195 --> 00:42:44.765
Alright, so in 20, um, 2016

1183
00:42:45.025 --> 00:42:48.445
or 2015, um, we were still independent.

1184
00:42:48.665 --> 00:42:51.125
The industry was consolidating a lot. Right.

1185
00:42:51.245 --> 00:42:54.725
Bonnaroo was, uh, Bonnaroo had, was sold off, um,

1186
00:42:55.205 --> 00:42:56.445
C3 sold to Live Nation.

1187
00:42:57.185 --> 00:43:00.125
Um, live Nation, a EG Were kind of getting into a, you know,

1188
00:43:00.125 --> 00:43:01.445
just stepping up the competition.

1189
00:43:02.065 --> 00:43:04.525
And a EG was, um, trying to come to New York

1190
00:43:04.585 --> 00:43:08.325
to do a festival and they had a, a lobbyist

1191
00:43:08.325 --> 00:43:09.365
that was connected to the mayor.

1192
00:43:09.905 --> 00:43:14.245
Um, and were able to, uh, get Flushing Meadows, Corona Park,

1193
00:43:16.295 --> 00:43:18.085
which is the venue that we're in now, right?

1194
00:43:18.085 --> 00:43:19.085
Mm-hmm. And they came to us

1195
00:43:19.085 --> 00:43:21.445
and said, look, we we're close with the mayor.

1196
00:43:21.465 --> 00:43:26.285
We have this venue. We would like to work together to, um,

1197
00:43:27.225 --> 00:43:28.805
uh, to put this festival on together.

1198
00:43:29.065 --> 00:43:30.525
So, you know, we wanna do a deal with you.

1199
00:43:30.825 --> 00:43:31.845
We said, okay, we're interested.

1200
00:43:32.385 --> 00:43:33.605
So we talked to them for a while.

1201
00:43:34.505 --> 00:43:37.725
Um, wasn't, didn't work out, wasn't a fit.

1202
00:43:38.265 --> 00:43:41.405
Um, but from that conversation, we started to get the sense

1203
00:43:41.405 --> 00:43:43.085
that we really needed to muscle up

1204
00:43:43.345 --> 00:43:45.365
to compete in this new landscape.

1205
00:43:45.755 --> 00:43:48.125
Yeah. Right. The bands were getting paid more money.

1206
00:43:48.125 --> 00:43:50.125
Tickets were starting to be dynamically priced.

1207
00:43:50.665 --> 00:43:53.045
You know, if you lost your ass, you're outta business.

1208
00:43:53.425 --> 00:43:55.285
And we needed a financial backstop

1209
00:43:55.345 --> 00:43:56.725
and a partner that could help us grow.

1210
00:43:57.065 --> 00:43:59.685
So a EG reached out, didn't really didn't make sense.

1211
00:44:00.385 --> 00:44:02.965
Um, so we started talking to Live Nation

1212
00:44:03.305 --> 00:44:04.565
and to Madison Square Garden.

1213
00:44:05.785 --> 00:44:10.085
And, uh, we talked to the kind of executive level, uh,

1214
00:44:11.255 --> 00:44:12.405
folks at those companies

1215
00:44:12.705 --> 00:44:15.765
and it was very clear who was more our speed.

1216
00:44:15.785 --> 00:44:18.005
And those were the, the folks at Live Nation. Yeah.

1217
00:44:18.005 --> 00:44:21.445
Just pragmatic leadership. Um, really smart.

1218
00:44:22.065 --> 00:44:23.925
Uh, it was clear they were gonna let us operate

1219
00:44:23.925 --> 00:44:25.245
the business as we have been.

1220
00:44:25.945 --> 00:44:27.965
And, you know, we can continue to do our thing

1221
00:44:27.985 --> 00:44:29.485
and be as independent as possible,

1222
00:44:29.505 --> 00:44:31.205
but be a part of a bigger team team.

1223
00:44:31.205 --> 00:44:33.405
So we did a joint venture with them, um,

1224
00:44:33.905 --> 00:44:35.525
and we had this financial backstop,

1225
00:44:35.585 --> 00:44:37.325
so we said, f**k yeah, great.

1226
00:44:37.585 --> 00:44:40.085
We have a bank. Let's do more festivals.

1227
00:44:41.035 --> 00:44:42.645
Here we go. Here we go.

1228
00:44:43.665 --> 00:44:48.485
So, uh, a EG had launched his Panorama Festival in July

1229
00:44:48.865 --> 00:44:50.925
of 2016, I wanna say.

1230
00:44:51.225 --> 00:44:52.365
And that was the one that they,

1231
00:44:52.475 --> 00:44:54.685
they ended up not getting the park that they said they had.

1232
00:44:54.685 --> 00:44:55.965
They had to do it with our Randall's Island.

1233
00:44:56.625 --> 00:44:58.485
Um, but, you know, we had Gov Ball,

1234
00:44:58.485 --> 00:45:01.325
which then was on Randall's Island, uh, in early June.

1235
00:45:01.425 --> 00:45:04.005
You had Panorama in, you know, end of July.

1236
00:45:04.785 --> 00:45:06.965
Um, and we, we thought

1237
00:45:06.965 --> 00:45:08.885
that maybe another festival could work in

1238
00:45:08.885 --> 00:45:10.005
New York City in the fall.

1239
00:45:10.485 --> 00:45:13.085
Hmm. For two reasons. Number one, most

1240
00:45:13.085 --> 00:45:17.645
of the time bands will play in, um, they'll play

1241
00:45:18.705 --> 00:45:20.965
in the city in the spring and then come back in the fall.

1242
00:45:21.545 --> 00:45:22.725
Or they won't play in the city.

1243
00:45:22.725 --> 00:45:24.565
They'll do Europe, or they'll do the South

1244
00:45:24.985 --> 00:45:26.805
and then they'll come play the city in the fall.

1245
00:45:26.805 --> 00:45:28.205
So we knew there was gonna be a big crop

1246
00:45:28.205 --> 00:45:29.405
of bands playing in the fall.

1247
00:45:29.555 --> 00:45:31.005
Yeah. Great bands to choose from.

1248
00:45:31.265 --> 00:45:33.485
And there were no festivals in the fall in New York City.

1249
00:45:33.905 --> 00:45:36.125
Um, doing one in New York could, you know,

1250
00:45:36.205 --> 00:45:39.605
a band could route from a New York festival in September all

1251
00:45:39.605 --> 00:45:43.205
the way down to ACL, um, in Austin, Texas.

1252
00:45:43.455 --> 00:45:45.805
Right. You could play Music Midtown in between go to Austin.

1253
00:45:45.905 --> 00:45:48.125
So we thought, you know, we could get the bands,

1254
00:45:48.225 --> 00:45:50.365
we know New York's a proven Market Gov Ball works.

1255
00:45:50.635 --> 00:45:52.765
It's getting competitive. Let's, let's do it.

1256
00:45:53.585 --> 00:45:57.565
So we put together this festival called The Meadows Okay.

1257
00:45:57.705 --> 00:46:01.045
And came out in year one with Kanye West Chance the Rapper,

1258
00:46:02.105 --> 00:46:04.005
um, the weekend.

1259
00:46:04.675 --> 00:46:06.885
Geez. Uh, this great lineup,

1260
00:46:06.885 --> 00:46:08.565
this really fantastic lineup.

1261
00:46:09.305 --> 00:46:12.285
Um, sales were okay. Sales were

1262
00:46:12.285 --> 00:46:13.365
Okay. What's okay to you?

1263
00:46:14.305 --> 00:46:16.485
Um, the Kanye and Chance the Rapper Day was great.

1264
00:46:16.485 --> 00:46:20.405
That show sold out 40,000. Cool. The weekend day was slower.

1265
00:46:20.625 --> 00:46:21.925
It was in the low twenties.

1266
00:46:22.905 --> 00:46:24.085
And about two weeks

1267
00:46:24.085 --> 00:46:26.325
before the show, uh, we get a call

1268
00:46:26.325 --> 00:46:27.685
that the weekend's pulling off.

1269
00:46:28.105 --> 00:46:30.365
Oh. Because he's playing, um,

1270
00:46:32.035 --> 00:46:34.525
he's playing SNL that night. That

1271
00:46:34.985 --> 00:46:36.285
That's right there. You can't do both.

1272
00:46:37.235 --> 00:46:39.245
Exactly. Well, apparently you can't do both.

1273
00:46:39.465 --> 00:46:41.525
Uh, because once you do the dress rehearsal,

1274
00:46:41.545 --> 00:46:43.325
you can't leave the building. Oh,

1275
00:46:43.465 --> 00:46:44.465
Wow. This is

1276
00:46:44.465 --> 00:46:45.365
live taping And like,

1277
00:46:45.365 --> 00:46:46.405
don't you have to work all week?

1278
00:46:46.405 --> 00:46:48.205
Yeah. Isn't it like they're all, they're there all week

1279
00:46:48.305 --> 00:46:49.725
to kinda like, prepare for that

1280
00:46:50.275 --> 00:46:51.275
Look. We asked all those

1281
00:46:51.275 --> 00:46:51.645
questions.

1282
00:46:51.665 --> 00:46:53.965
The vibe that we got was like, listen, the Weekend's doing

1283
00:46:54.645 --> 00:46:56.325
SNL, he's, he's not playing your festival anymore.

1284
00:46:56.545 --> 00:46:57.645
Wow. And we said, s**t.

1285
00:46:58.065 --> 00:47:00.005
And then we went to the agent said, who can we book?

1286
00:47:00.005 --> 00:47:03.205
They said J Cole. So we booked j Cole, I guess the weekend,

1287
00:47:03.205 --> 00:47:05.645
found out about this on social media, came back to us

1288
00:47:05.645 --> 00:47:07.125
and said he wanted to be back on and play.

1289
00:47:07.675 --> 00:47:08.805
Okay. Oh my God.

1290
00:47:08.905 --> 00:47:11.765
Now you're spending money on j Cole and the weekend. Right?

1291
00:47:11.765 --> 00:47:13.005
Exactly. Oh, no. Well,

1292
00:47:13.005 --> 00:47:14.005
We figured out how to do it. Right.

1293
00:47:14.005 --> 00:47:16.165
We were like, we were gonna be a winner for the fans.

1294
00:47:16.455 --> 00:47:17.965
Right. We booked, oh my God.

1295
00:47:18.235 --> 00:47:20.605
Amazing, amazing hip hop artist and Jay Cole.

1296
00:47:20.605 --> 00:47:22.685
We had the weekend. Right. Um,

1297
00:47:22.745 --> 00:47:24.045
And you got the Live Nation bank.

1298
00:47:24.355 --> 00:47:27.245
Yeah. And, and we had the financial ability to do that.

1299
00:47:27.555 --> 00:47:29.765
Yeah. Um, so we did it

1300
00:47:30.545 --> 00:47:31.845
and then a few days later the

1301
00:47:31.845 --> 00:47:32.885
weekend said, eh, it's too much.

1302
00:47:32.945 --> 00:47:34.085
Not gonna do it. Oh my

1303
00:47:34.105 --> 00:47:36.205
God. What the f**k?

1304
00:47:36.545 --> 00:47:39.845
Um, so he backed out and we had to kind of, um, you know,

1305
00:47:40.145 --> 00:47:42.845
manage that situation, which was, which was not easy.

1306
00:47:43.305 --> 00:47:45.325
Um, but it ended up being How'd you approach that?

1307
00:47:48.275 --> 00:47:51.975
At the end of the day, we are in the artist's business.

1308
00:47:52.645 --> 00:47:53.695
Yeah. Right.

1309
00:47:53.955 --> 00:47:56.935
And if the artist, we're gonna do whatever the artist wants

1310
00:47:56.935 --> 00:47:58.175
to do, you know,

1311
00:47:58.275 --> 00:48:00.335
so whether we like it or not, we have no choice.

1312
00:48:00.535 --> 00:48:01.775
'cause we wanna keep working with artists

1313
00:48:01.775 --> 00:48:02.735
that are putting on great

1314
00:48:02.735 --> 00:48:03.815
concerts and putting out great music.

1315
00:48:04.045 --> 00:48:07.455
Yeah. And if they have to bail on a show

1316
00:48:07.485 --> 00:48:10.975
because of a family issue, a personal issue,

1317
00:48:10.975 --> 00:48:14.095
emotional issue, or a conflict, like it stings,

1318
00:48:14.095 --> 00:48:15.735
we're gonna get angry, we're gonna get upset about it.

1319
00:48:15.755 --> 00:48:17.335
But like, it's what the artist wants to do.

1320
00:48:17.435 --> 00:48:19.655
We wanna keep working with the artist and as agents.

1321
00:48:19.655 --> 00:48:21.735
Artists. So you just roll with the punches. Yeah.

1322
00:48:22.125 --> 00:48:24.415
There's this, This like totem pole, right?

1323
00:48:24.635 --> 00:48:26.535
The artists are on the top. Right?

1324
00:48:26.765 --> 00:48:28.695
Then you have the managers. Yeah. Below that.

1325
00:48:29.045 --> 00:48:30.895
Then below that you have the agents. Yeah.

1326
00:48:30.915 --> 00:48:34.175
And at the very bottom you got the promoter. Yeah.

1327
00:48:34.675 --> 00:48:37.285
That's what, that's my question to you.

1328
00:48:37.285 --> 00:48:40.125
Like after getting f*****g your eyes gouged out

1329
00:48:40.125 --> 00:48:41.885
by all these f*****g people, how do you still

1330
00:48:41.955 --> 00:48:43.125
love the music industry?

1331
00:48:43.355 --> 00:48:44.355
Yeah.

1332
00:48:44.905 --> 00:48:48.445
Um, I'm a little bit jaded. Yeah. I will say.

1333
00:48:48.945 --> 00:48:53.045
But what makes me love the music industry is when you go

1334
00:48:53.145 --> 00:48:55.365
to a festival or a show

1335
00:48:56.185 --> 00:48:58.885
and you just, the f*****g band is killing it.

1336
00:48:59.115 --> 00:49:01.005
Yeah. And everybody is f*****g feeling it.

1337
00:49:01.065 --> 00:49:04.685
And you're like, this is why I do what I do. Yeah. Right.

1338
00:49:04.705 --> 00:49:06.845
Or you, you listen to a new record. Right.

1339
00:49:06.905 --> 00:49:08.485
And it's just, it's really hitting

1340
00:49:08.705 --> 00:49:10.365
and it's just giving you those chills

1341
00:49:10.365 --> 00:49:12.445
and you're like, f**k, this is so amazing.

1342
00:49:12.985 --> 00:49:15.845
That's what keeps me, that that's what keeps my heart

1343
00:49:15.845 --> 00:49:17.805
and soul in it through all the b******t.

1344
00:49:18.475 --> 00:49:21.165
Yeah. Well, I'm gonna f**k clap to that Tom. Justin.

1345
00:49:21.175 --> 00:49:23.165
Let's go baby. It's the music itself.

1346
00:49:23.905 --> 00:49:25.045
But wait, we didn't even get

1347
00:49:25.045 --> 00:49:26.405
to the part where I lost my shirt.

1348
00:49:26.835 --> 00:49:27.765
Well, I can't wait. Oh,

1349
00:49:27.765 --> 00:49:28.845
okay. Okay. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. Good.

1350
00:49:28.845 --> 00:49:31.125
Alright. So we figure out Meadows year one.

1351
00:49:31.355 --> 00:49:33.885
Well, actually not really, because when Kanye played,

1352
00:49:34.585 --> 00:49:35.885
so the weekend was supposed to be on Saturday,

1353
00:49:36.185 --> 00:49:37.565
he bails for SNLJ.

1354
00:49:37.565 --> 00:49:38.845
Cole fills in, has a great set.

1355
00:49:39.105 --> 00:49:41.645
Sunday was the sold out day Chance the rapper

1356
00:49:41.825 --> 00:49:43.045
on his, you know, rise.

1357
00:49:43.185 --> 00:49:47.245
Mm-hmm. Uh, followed by Kanye West at his peak. Right.

1358
00:49:47.555 --> 00:49:49.405
Certainly not the, the current Kanye. I

1359
00:49:49.405 --> 00:49:50.405
Don't think he's at his peak anymore. Yeah.

1360
00:49:50.405 --> 00:49:51.845
Oh, maybe so.

1361
00:49:51.945 --> 00:49:54.725
Uh, he's on stage. He's on stage performing.

1362
00:49:55.105 --> 00:49:56.845
Um, we're about halfway through his set

1363
00:49:57.265 --> 00:50:00.405
and he stops the show runs off the stage

1364
00:50:00.995 --> 00:50:03.445
because his wife had been bound

1365
00:50:03.445 --> 00:50:06.165
and gagged in Paris during that robbery. Oh yes.

1366
00:50:06.665 --> 00:50:09.845
Oh my God. This is the same week. Wow. Dude.

1367
00:50:09.915 --> 00:50:12.085
Yeah. He's like, I gotta go Family emergency.

1368
00:50:12.085 --> 00:50:13.485
And he runs off the stage.

1369
00:50:14.105 --> 00:50:15.925
So we have 40,000 people in his venue.

1370
00:50:16.075 --> 00:50:19.125
Everybody's like, what the f**k is happening? Right.

1371
00:50:19.125 --> 00:50:21.645
They're so excited. 'cause Kanye put on this amazing

1372
00:50:21.855 --> 00:50:22.965
first half of the show.

1373
00:50:22.985 --> 00:50:26.805
Mm-hmm. Um, so I'm sprinting back to my trailer.

1374
00:50:27.385 --> 00:50:30.725
I'm getting with my crisis PR team, my social media team.

1375
00:50:31.225 --> 00:50:33.805
I'm on the phone with managers, with everybody

1376
00:50:34.425 --> 00:50:35.725
trying to figure out what's happening.

1377
00:50:36.105 --> 00:50:38.485
And, you know, as more time had elapsed, we started

1378
00:50:38.485 --> 00:50:39.765
to realize, you know,

1379
00:50:39.835 --> 00:50:41.845
that Kim Kardashian had been held at gunpoint.

1380
00:50:41.985 --> 00:50:43.125
Mm-hmm. All of these things.

1381
00:50:43.355 --> 00:50:46.245
Meanwhile, my social media team is saying, Hey Tom,

1382
00:50:46.245 --> 00:50:48.285
everybody thinks that, you know, we canceled the show.

1383
00:50:48.285 --> 00:50:49.885
They want their money back. Like,

1384
00:50:49.885 --> 00:50:50.965
uh, what do we say to these people?

1385
00:50:50.995 --> 00:50:52.645
What do we do? Yada, yada.

1386
00:50:52.645 --> 00:50:57.365
Because Kanye played 61% of his set time. So

1387
00:50:57.775 --> 00:50:59.845
61% Does that mean he still gets paid?

1388
00:51:00.305 --> 00:51:02.045
He got paid. F**k.

1389
00:51:02.305 --> 00:51:05.245
So what's the percentage before you can't pay him?

1390
00:51:06.645 --> 00:51:09.105
I'd like to say 50%. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool.

1391
00:51:09.485 --> 00:51:10.865
Not that that's in contract or anything,

1392
00:51:10.865 --> 00:51:12.705
but that's just, you know, that seems reasonable.

1393
00:51:12.705 --> 00:51:14.345
Seems reasonable. Yeah. Fair as s**t.

1394
00:51:14.485 --> 00:51:16.105
Um, so, you know, I'm trying

1395
00:51:16.105 --> 00:51:17.145
to figure out what to do to the fans.

1396
00:51:17.345 --> 00:51:18.345
'cause fans are p****d. They want their money back,

1397
00:51:18.345 --> 00:51:20.145
they think it's our fault, or they think it's just Kanye

1398
00:51:20.145 --> 00:51:22.305
being Kanye, so we should give them their money back.

1399
00:51:22.355 --> 00:51:24.425
Right? Mm-hmm. But as the, the news starts

1400
00:51:24.425 --> 00:51:27.705
to become more well known, we everybody starts

1401
00:51:27.705 --> 00:51:28.745
to be a little bit understanding

1402
00:51:28.775 --> 00:51:30.945
that it wasn't our fault Meadows Festival.

1403
00:51:30.975 --> 00:51:33.225
This is a terrible situation that happened

1404
00:51:33.885 --> 00:51:35.585
and, um, you know, it's okay.

1405
00:51:35.795 --> 00:51:38.465
Right. So, you know, Kanye goes to Paris,

1406
00:51:39.245 --> 00:51:43.145
we load out the site, we have this really unique year one,

1407
00:51:43.685 --> 00:51:45.025
and we start to talk to agents

1408
00:51:45.025 --> 00:51:46.145
and managers about bands

1409
00:51:46.145 --> 00:51:47.305
that are available for the next year.

1410
00:51:48.485 --> 00:51:50.865
So, you know, we get more

1411
00:51:50.865 --> 00:51:55.185
and more, um, uh, feedback from the agents and managers

1412
00:51:55.185 --> 00:51:56.745
and we're like, f**k, next year's crop

1413
00:51:56.745 --> 00:51:58.545
of artists in September is sick.

1414
00:51:58.975 --> 00:52:00.865
Yeah. You have the gorillas that are available.

1415
00:52:01.165 --> 00:52:02.865
You have the chili peppers that are available.

1416
00:52:03.725 --> 00:52:08.625
Um, you have Nas, you have Lizzo, um, you know,

1417
00:52:08.625 --> 00:52:11.665
you have this, uh, you have Jay-Z Yeah.

1418
00:52:11.905 --> 00:52:14.265
Hometown, Jay-Z. Oh my God. Massive.

1419
00:52:14.365 --> 00:52:15.985
So we're like, f**k yeah, right there.

1420
00:52:15.985 --> 00:52:18.105
This is one good way to come back from a Right.

1421
00:52:18.125 --> 00:52:19.305
You know, rocky year.

1422
00:52:20.005 --> 00:52:22.705
Um, so we booked this amazing lineup to this day,

1423
00:52:22.705 --> 00:52:24.185
I think one of the best lineups we've ever booked.

1424
00:52:25.445 --> 00:52:29.785
Put this thing on sale and it was a complete disaster. Oh

1425
00:52:29.935 --> 00:52:32.305
F**k Disaster. How with that lineup,

1426
00:52:32.325 --> 00:52:33.425
How, yeah. It seems impossible.

1427
00:52:33.725 --> 00:52:35.785
I'm still asking. Oh wow. Okay.

1428
00:52:36.325 --> 00:52:38.505
I'm, I still don't understand. There was no

1429
00:52:38.505 --> 00:52:39.825
Cause and effect that was apparent.

1430
00:52:39.845 --> 00:52:42.185
Huh? I mean, I could tell you maybe it was the venue

1431
00:52:42.545 --> 00:52:44.185
'cause it was in the city field parking lot.

1432
00:52:44.365 --> 00:52:46.945
Oh. Jay Z fans are older. They don't wanna go to that venue.

1433
00:52:47.085 --> 00:52:48.225
But like, I'm kind of,

1434
00:52:48.225 --> 00:52:49.905
of the belief if the talent lineup is good

1435
00:52:49.905 --> 00:52:51.105
enough, people will come.

1436
00:52:51.295 --> 00:52:52.305
It's like the field of dreams.

1437
00:52:52.305 --> 00:52:54.345
If you book them, they'll come. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

1438
00:52:55.285 --> 00:52:58.865
Um, so, you know, maybe it was the venue,

1439
00:52:58.995 --> 00:53:01.785
maybe it was the bad Juju from year one and word of mouth.

1440
00:53:02.115 --> 00:53:05.185
Maybe gorillas, Jay-Z, red Chili Pepper fans,

1441
00:53:05.185 --> 00:53:06.465
maybe they want a proper bathroom.

1442
00:53:06.795 --> 00:53:08.945
Right. Maybe they don't wanna be at a festival. Right.

1443
00:53:08.945 --> 00:53:11.225
And at that time that I started to realize

1444
00:53:11.225 --> 00:53:14.025
that there was a shift in festivals where it started

1445
00:53:14.045 --> 00:53:15.065
to get real young.

1446
00:53:15.935 --> 00:53:18.315
Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. It used to be like older twenties

1447
00:53:18.695 --> 00:53:21.475
to mid thirties or mid twenties to like older thirties.

1448
00:53:22.175 --> 00:53:24.755
And then around 2017 it started

1449
00:53:24.755 --> 00:53:26.965
to get real young when kids started to realize

1450
00:53:26.965 --> 00:53:29.045
that Coachella was the f*****g coolest thing on the planet.

1451
00:53:29.195 --> 00:53:31.685
Yeah. But they couldn't convince their parents to fly them

1452
00:53:31.685 --> 00:53:32.885
to Indio, California.

1453
00:53:34.275 --> 00:53:36.725
I'll just go to my local festival here in New York City.

1454
00:53:36.775 --> 00:53:39.525
Right. And that's when Gov Ball started to see this influx

1455
00:53:39.525 --> 00:53:41.565
of super young people.

1456
00:53:42.065 --> 00:53:45.365
And we started to see it in our survey results that like,

1457
00:53:45.365 --> 00:53:47.605
people were p****d that these young kids were coming

1458
00:53:47.865 --> 00:53:49.005
and getting super drunk.

1459
00:53:49.435 --> 00:53:51.405
They were just acting a fool. Right.

1460
00:53:51.465 --> 00:53:54.325
And negatively impacting, um, you know,

1461
00:53:54.325 --> 00:53:56.925
music lovers experience at, at the festivals.

1462
00:53:56.925 --> 00:53:58.605
Mm-hmm. And I think that, you know, maybe

1463
00:53:58.605 --> 00:54:01.125
what the Meadows maybe, you know, this older fans were like,

1464
00:54:01.225 --> 00:54:03.205
eh, Jay-Z will play New York again.

1465
00:54:03.205 --> 00:54:04.765
The chili peppers are around every couple years.

1466
00:54:04.955 --> 00:54:06.325
I'll wait to see them at the Garden

1467
00:54:06.385 --> 00:54:08.645
or the Barclay Center as opposed to go to a festival

1468
00:54:08.775 --> 00:54:10.845
where maybe a kid might throw up on my sneaker.

1469
00:54:11.205 --> 00:54:13.445
Oh yeah, yeah. Right. And it's 95 degrees Max.

1470
00:54:13.445 --> 00:54:15.165
Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So when you saw that,

1471
00:54:15.465 --> 00:54:17.285
you're like, s**t, we gotta book younger bands.

1472
00:54:18.185 --> 00:54:21.715
Well, when I saw the ticket sales in day one, I was like,

1473
00:54:21.715 --> 00:54:23.395
f**k, how the f**k are we gonna get outta this one?

1474
00:54:23.525 --> 00:54:27.635
Right. Um, and you know, we talked with, uh, you know,

1475
00:54:27.635 --> 00:54:30.275
the team and we just, we played the show, tried

1476
00:54:30.275 --> 00:54:31.675
to cut expenses as much as possible

1477
00:54:32.095 --> 00:54:34.315
and, you know, just took that one on the chin. What

1478
00:54:34.315 --> 00:54:35.595
Did Live Nations say when they're like,

1479
00:54:35.595 --> 00:54:37.435
they probably were like, this is confusing.

1480
00:54:37.615 --> 00:54:39.875
How is this slam slam dunk? Yeah. This is a slam dunk.

1481
00:54:39.875 --> 00:54:44.395
Everybody, everybody was confused. Um, but you know what?

1482
00:54:44.735 --> 00:54:47.075
You, you take the loss and you move on. Right.

1483
00:54:47.075 --> 00:54:48.435
Nothing. Take the l Yeah.

1484
00:54:48.505 --> 00:54:50.755
Take the l and you and you keep going. It's

1485
00:54:50.755 --> 00:54:52.115
Kinda like the New York Knicks sometimes.

1486
00:54:52.115 --> 00:54:53.155
Yeah. The the l

1487
00:54:53.335 --> 00:54:54.335
You're speaking my language.

1488
00:54:54.475 --> 00:54:56.515
'cause I'm Knicks fan. Yeah. I'm back.

1489
00:54:56.675 --> 00:54:58.315
A lot of Ls my entire life. Yeah,

1490
00:54:58.385 --> 00:54:59.715
Dude, I'm a Laker fan.

1491
00:54:59.715 --> 00:55:01.475
We're, we're getting our asses stomped. Right.

1492
00:55:01.595 --> 00:55:03.675
I like all Cleveland teams. So I think I win this.

1493
00:55:03.745 --> 00:55:05.715
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Um,

1494
00:55:05.715 --> 00:55:06.475
Well, I think this year

1495
00:55:06.475 --> 00:55:07.915
you'll, you'll definitely win this. Yeah.

1496
00:55:08.175 --> 00:55:10.835
So my question is too, like when you get,

1497
00:55:10.835 --> 00:55:13.995
when you book these bigger bands, how many

1498
00:55:13.995 --> 00:55:15.755
of these agents saying, if you want this guy,

1499
00:55:15.755 --> 00:55:19.075
you're gonna need to take three of our smaller lineups too?

1500
00:55:19.655 --> 00:55:20.875
It happens a lot. Yeah.

1501
00:55:21.055 --> 00:55:22.875
Oh, okay. Is it mostly part of the deals?

1502
00:55:23.785 --> 00:55:25.355
It's not. It's not.

1503
00:55:25.755 --> 00:55:27.795
I think most of it is, you know, if you're dealing

1504
00:55:27.825 --> 00:55:29.635
with a agent for a headliner

1505
00:55:29.655 --> 00:55:31.955
or a sub headliner, um, you know, they're working

1506
00:55:31.955 --> 00:55:33.755
with an incredible artist that you want on your bill.

1507
00:55:33.885 --> 00:55:36.275
Right. Yeah. That agent certainly has, um,

1508
00:55:36.335 --> 00:55:39.355
is certainly smart has his finger on the pulse of,

1509
00:55:39.855 --> 00:55:40.955
of artists in general.

1510
00:55:41.295 --> 00:55:43.235
So when they're saying, I have these younger bands

1511
00:55:43.235 --> 00:55:45.435
that you should put on your show, you know, maybe

1512
00:55:45.435 --> 00:55:47.475
that could be the next headliner years down the road.

1513
00:55:47.685 --> 00:55:50.555
Right. So a level of trust that you have to a degree,

1514
00:55:50.585 --> 00:55:52.875
like we've had bands that have played, you know,

1515
00:55:52.875 --> 00:55:54.915
first up on the main stage at noon

1516
00:55:55.065 --> 00:55:56.955
that are now selling out two nights of the garden.

1517
00:55:57.205 --> 00:55:59.915
Right. Right. And that started, the reason why they got

1518
00:55:59.915 --> 00:56:01.075
that slot at 12 noon was

1519
00:56:01.075 --> 00:56:02.475
because it was an agent saying, Hey,

1520
00:56:02.475 --> 00:56:05.235
can you please book my younger band since you're also

1521
00:56:05.235 --> 00:56:06.755
booking the penultimate band? Right,

1522
00:56:06.755 --> 00:56:07.355
Right. Totally.

1523
00:56:07.775 --> 00:56:09.195
And we also listen to all the music, right.

1524
00:56:09.215 --> 00:56:11.435
Any submissions that come in where we're on Spotify,

1525
00:56:11.525 --> 00:56:12.595
we're listening to what we're going

1526
00:56:12.595 --> 00:56:13.755
to see them when they're in town next.

1527
00:56:13.755 --> 00:56:15.915
And we're, uh, we're a part of that curation.

1528
00:56:16.815 --> 00:56:18.635
Um, but, you know, we're all friends and,

1529
00:56:18.635 --> 00:56:20.275
and music lovers at the end of the day. So

1530
00:56:21.255 --> 00:56:23.765
Who, which agent is the hardest to deal with?

1531
00:56:25.395 --> 00:56:27.045
Well, again, I'm not a talent buyer, so I,

1532
00:56:27.205 --> 00:56:28.765
I thankfully cannot answer that question.

1533
00:56:28.815 --> 00:56:30.485
Which manager's, hardest manager deal

1534
00:56:30.485 --> 00:56:33.085
with which manager's easiest to deal with? Might be the,

1535
00:56:33.645 --> 00:56:35.285
Listen guys, I just deal with New York City

1536
00:56:35.385 --> 00:56:36.965
and the production and site. Okay.

1537
00:56:37.505 --> 00:56:38.765
So, okay. Then that's,

1538
00:56:39.285 --> 00:56:40.685
I will say this, all of the agents

1539
00:56:41.505 --> 00:56:44.325
and managers that are super tough, you know,

1540
00:56:44.395 --> 00:56:47.725
like Marsha Lasik, she's a tough agent.

1541
00:56:47.755 --> 00:56:50.005
Yeah, right. Incredibly intimidating.

1542
00:56:50.385 --> 00:56:53.045
But I love her to death and she's so smart

1543
00:56:53.585 --> 00:56:56.685
and, you know, she's dedicated to protecting her artists.

1544
00:56:57.505 --> 00:56:59.365
And is she a little crazy? Sure.

1545
00:56:59.665 --> 00:57:01.365
But like any executive

1546
00:57:01.365 --> 00:57:03.725
or any high power person is gonna be

1547
00:57:03.805 --> 00:57:05.965
a f*****g little bit crazy. I'm convinced.

1548
00:57:06.635 --> 00:57:07.845
What? So yeah, you have to be,

1549
00:57:07.845 --> 00:57:09.725
what's your take on a New York agent, um,

1550
00:57:09.935 --> 00:57:11.365
named John Bonjovi?

1551
00:57:12.925 --> 00:57:14.115
We've booked some of his bands.

1552
00:57:14.115 --> 00:57:15.515
Only Good things. I think he's got one on

1553
00:57:15.515 --> 00:57:16.515
There this year. He's playing

1554
00:57:16.515 --> 00:57:17.435
get, yeah. Yeah.

1555
00:57:18.055 --> 00:57:20.035
You have K bin Do you have kung bin on it? I thought you

1556
00:57:20.035 --> 00:57:21.035
Did. Royal Lotus Wet have Kung Band,

1557
00:57:21.035 --> 00:57:21.075

1558
00:57:21.075 --> 00:57:22.995
but I, I love them to death. So Wonder Day. Oh,

1559
00:57:22.995 --> 00:57:24.195
Royal Lotus. You have Royal Lotus.

1560
00:57:24.255 --> 00:57:25.315
We do have Royal Lotus. Yeah.

1561
00:57:25.545 --> 00:57:27.355
That, that's a great band, man. I mean,

1562
00:57:27.555 --> 00:57:28.555
I love Royal Lotus. I saw them

1563
00:57:28.555 --> 00:57:29.555
when they played at, um,

1564
00:57:30.035 --> 00:57:31.555
I guess racket is what it's called now.

1565
00:57:31.665 --> 00:57:33.835
Yeah. Um, but I've been up on them for a minute.

1566
00:57:33.835 --> 00:57:35.275
They're, they're a great band. Great.

1567
00:57:35.655 --> 00:57:37.635
Oh yeah, man. Tom, this has been

1568
00:57:37.655 --> 00:57:39.315
so awesome to talk to you.

1569
00:57:39.315 --> 00:57:40.755
I've learned a lot. Um, I've learned a lot.

1570
00:57:40.875 --> 00:57:42.515
I wanna know, I got a couple more questions.

1571
00:57:43.015 --> 00:57:44.795
How hard is it to deal with the f*****g city?

1572
00:57:45.215 --> 00:57:46.395
That's what I was wondering too.

1573
00:57:47.205 --> 00:57:49.015
It's really f*****g hard, guys. Yeah,

1574
00:57:49.375 --> 00:57:50.695
I f*****g bet. Dude. Taxes.

1575
00:57:50.915 --> 00:57:53.905
It really are. I will say there are three people in the

1576
00:57:53.905 --> 00:57:58.025
mayor's office who I would work with often who resigned

1577
00:57:58.095 --> 00:57:59.625
because they were indicted.

1578
00:58:00.365 --> 00:58:03.585
Oh my God. Holy s**t. Yeah, dude. Right?

1579
00:58:03.775 --> 00:58:06.585
Yeah. Um, you have, um,

1580
00:58:08.185 --> 00:58:09.825
turnover all the time in positions.

1581
00:58:09.825 --> 00:58:12.945
Mm-hmm. And you have new mayor mayoral administrations.

1582
00:58:13.165 --> 00:58:15.745
You know, there's a lot of politics between the agencies,

1583
00:58:15.745 --> 00:58:17.785
between the parks department and the mayor's office

1584
00:58:17.925 --> 00:58:19.905
and the fire department and the police department.

1585
00:58:20.525 --> 00:58:23.865
And things just move really, really slowly. Yeah. Right.

1586
00:58:23.965 --> 00:58:25.625
Um, it's really unfortunate

1587
00:58:25.625 --> 00:58:29.465
because, you know, for Gov Ball we risk $25 million a year.

1588
00:58:30.275 --> 00:58:32.705
We're, we're pumping a hundred million dollars in economic

1589
00:58:33.305 --> 00:58:35.625
activity into the economy annually.

1590
00:58:36.195 --> 00:58:38.545
Right. And I gotta fight tooth

1591
00:58:38.565 --> 00:58:41.905
and nail just to get my dates for the following year. Damn.

1592
00:58:42.135 --> 00:58:44.185
What? And it's such a success for the city,

1593
00:58:44.365 --> 00:58:46.225
and it's been going for over 10 years. So it's

1594
00:58:46.225 --> 00:58:48.345
Like, you know, it's like a, it's, it's like a supply

1595
00:58:48.345 --> 00:58:50.065
and demanding everybody wants to be in New York,

1596
00:58:50.065 --> 00:58:52.265
so the city kind of thinks that, you know,

1597
00:58:52.265 --> 00:58:53.385
it's okay to act this way.

1598
00:58:53.965 --> 00:58:57.185
Um, I really wish that they, they took a more holistic view,

1599
00:58:57.965 --> 00:58:59.905
uh, you know, for economic reasons,

1600
00:58:59.925 --> 00:59:01.145
but also just cultural reasons.

1601
00:59:01.625 --> 00:59:04.185
Hmm. Right. Like, we, we bring musicians and artists

1602
00:59:04.285 --> 00:59:06.265
and fans from all over the world to New York City

1603
00:59:06.325 --> 00:59:08.465
to spend money, enjoy the city, um,

1604
00:59:08.805 --> 00:59:10.105
you know, live that experience.

1605
00:59:10.685 --> 00:59:12.025
And, you know, it should be easy.

1606
00:59:12.025 --> 00:59:13.305
It should be a true partnership.

1607
00:59:13.325 --> 00:59:14.945
And I, I do think it is a partnership.

1608
00:59:15.455 --> 00:59:18.545
It's just, um, I wish it was easier.

1609
00:59:19.025 --> 00:59:22.605
I wish after 15 years it was just a, just a

1610
00:59:22.605 --> 00:59:23.605
Little Bit Easier.

1611
00:59:23.605 --> 00:59:24.485
Yeah. You would think you'd,

1612
00:59:24.485 --> 00:59:25.805
you know, give them my number.

1613
00:59:25.985 --> 00:59:29.125
Tom, I'll fight for you. You, I have no skin in the game.

1614
00:59:29.185 --> 00:59:30.485
I'm rooting for you, Tom. I'll,

1615
00:59:30.515 --> 00:59:31.605
I'll f*****g yell at these guys.

1616
00:59:31.605 --> 00:59:32.725
Okay. Yeah. Put 'em on the podcast.

1617
00:59:33.445 --> 00:59:34.445
I, I appreciate that. I,

1618
00:59:34.485 --> 00:59:36.285
I need all the help I can get sometimes get Mayor or Eric,

1619
00:59:36.285 --> 00:59:37.285
Adam on here. People

1620
00:59:37.285 --> 00:59:39.245
don't realize how important music festivals

1621
00:59:39.245 --> 00:59:40.325
are to, for the grow.

1622
00:59:40.485 --> 00:59:43.125
I mean, I grew up watching music festivals Same.

1623
00:59:43.225 --> 00:59:44.965
And that grew my childhood.

1624
00:59:45.315 --> 00:59:48.205
Like there, people don't realize how important the,

1625
00:59:48.205 --> 00:59:50.045
these big fest, like Warp Tour Van's.

1626
00:59:50.045 --> 00:59:51.485
Warp Tour was my festival. Yeah.

1627
00:59:51.645 --> 00:59:52.965
I mean, you know. Me too. Me too.

1628
00:59:53.245 --> 00:59:55.245
I was a pop punk kid and I worked at Drive Through

1629
00:59:55.245 --> 00:59:56.605
Records and I was, you know what?

1630
00:59:57.145 --> 00:59:58.285
You worked at Drive Through?

1631
00:59:58.315 --> 01:00:00.325
Yeah. I worked at Drive Through with Richard Rains. Wow.

1632
01:00:00.345 --> 01:00:02.925
And, uh, I was booking Hello, goodbye.

1633
01:00:03.305 --> 01:00:05.365
And, you know, I did some something corporate shows

1634
01:00:05.505 --> 01:00:06.925
and I did that whole thing

1635
01:00:06.925 --> 01:00:09.165
and I worked for Capital for Carist did for a bit

1636
01:00:09.165 --> 01:00:10.325
before I was a musician as well.

1637
01:00:11.005 --> 01:00:12.685
I used to hand out flyers for Epitaph

1638
01:00:12.685 --> 01:00:15.245
and, um, fuel By Ramen. Dude, I

1639
01:00:15.245 --> 01:00:16.245
Worked for Fuel by Ramen.

1640
01:00:16.405 --> 01:00:19.205
I worked, I did, uh, gym cla I, I was marketing

1641
01:00:19.205 --> 01:00:20.565
for gym Class Heroes in Paramore.

1642
01:00:20.955 --> 01:00:23.165
Nice. Damn. Oh, you're a pop, you're a pop punk kid.

1643
01:00:23.635 --> 01:00:26.165
Yeah. So I grew up in the city going to, uh, this venue,

1644
01:00:26.585 --> 01:00:28.765
um, called Coney Island High, which is on St.

1645
01:00:28.765 --> 01:00:30.525
Mark's place. Wow. And that's where like,

1646
01:00:30.545 --> 01:00:32.245
and the wetland, so you know, oh,

1647
01:00:32.245 --> 01:00:34.085
that makes milestones Less.

1648
01:00:34.085 --> 01:00:35.965
And Jake, no Effects. Like, that was my,

1649
01:00:36.765 --> 01:00:39.805
I guess like third wave ska and like nineties punk.

1650
01:00:39.805 --> 01:00:40.885
That was my jam. Hold on.

1651
01:00:40.955 --> 01:00:44.245
Shapiro was booking ska at the Wetlands. Oh yeah.

1652
01:00:44.465 --> 01:00:45.725
Oh Yeah, dude, that's my,

1653
01:00:46.005 --> 01:00:47.125
I used to have this thing every, um,

1654
01:00:47.235 --> 01:00:50.085
like once a once a month on Sundays. Ska Wars.

1655
01:00:50.225 --> 01:00:53.685
Yep. Dude, that's my, that's my, like, one

1656
01:00:53.805 --> 01:00:54.925
of my heroes is a promoter.

1657
01:00:54.925 --> 01:00:56.125
Like he's, I think he,

1658
01:00:56.185 --> 01:00:57.965
how he develops bands and how he cares.

1659
01:00:57.995 --> 01:01:00.405
Yeah. I could tell you care too. So he's

1660
01:01:00.405 --> 01:01:02.125
Beautiful mind. He's, he's a great guy.

1661
01:01:02.395 --> 01:01:05.085
Yeah. Um, Tom, thanks so much for your time, man.

1662
01:01:05.085 --> 01:01:07.285
I've learned a lot about bigger festivals

1663
01:01:07.345 --> 01:01:09.605
and don't let those f*****g city guys give you any s**t.

1664
01:01:09.605 --> 01:01:11.445
Okay. Yeah. You I'll, I'll talk to him.

1665
01:01:11.515 --> 01:01:13.365
I'll talk to him for you. Tom. Hey Greg.

1666
01:01:13.385 --> 01:01:15.085
Adam's phone number. Yeah, let's go.

1667
01:01:15.665 --> 01:01:18.485
Um, my last question, um, when it's all said

1668
01:01:18.485 --> 01:01:20.405
and done, you know, you've been doing this a long time

1669
01:01:20.705 --> 01:01:21.845
and I hope you keep doing it

1670
01:01:21.845 --> 01:01:24.165
because it's important for the sake of music.

1671
01:01:25.005 --> 01:01:26.485
Actually, I have two questions. Sorry.

1672
01:01:27.345 --> 01:01:28.725
If your son

1673
01:01:28.825 --> 01:01:32.005
or daughter wanna get into this music industry,

1674
01:01:32.395 --> 01:01:34.725
what advice would you give them at 26 years old

1675
01:01:34.725 --> 01:01:35.765
when you were first starting?

1676
01:01:37.105 --> 01:01:40.325
So, I think what I would tell them is,

1677
01:01:40.785 --> 01:01:42.365
I'd tell them something before they were 26.

1678
01:01:42.505 --> 01:01:44.285
I'd tell them something going into college at first.

1679
01:01:44.345 --> 01:01:47.045
I'd say go to a college in a, go a city

1680
01:01:48.335 --> 01:01:50.565
where you could get opportunities outside of college.

1681
01:01:51.025 --> 01:01:52.805
And when you're in college, get an internship.

1682
01:01:53.505 --> 01:01:55.885
Get many internships so that you can see

1683
01:01:55.885 --> 01:01:58.765
what it's like at various companies, especially companies

1684
01:01:58.765 --> 01:02:00.845
that are in a, a field that you're really interested in

1685
01:02:02.065 --> 01:02:04.685
and work your f*****g ass off Right.

1686
01:02:04.945 --> 01:02:07.205
In the internship, prove yourself. Right.

1687
01:02:07.225 --> 01:02:09.245
Be the first one in and the last one to leave.

1688
01:02:09.665 --> 01:02:11.365
Um, take everybody there out to lunch.

1689
01:02:11.765 --> 01:02:13.005
'cause ultimately they're probably gonna pay.

1690
01:02:13.245 --> 01:02:14.445
'cause you know, you're a broke college

1691
01:02:14.445 --> 01:02:15.565
student and they work.

1692
01:02:15.915 --> 01:02:18.925
Yeah. Um, pick their brain, ask questions,

1693
01:02:19.115 --> 01:02:22.445
develop these relationships so that when it comes time

1694
01:02:22.505 --> 01:02:26.005
for your internship to end, they say, well, f**k, that kid.

1695
01:02:26.235 --> 01:02:27.365
Made our team better. Right.

1696
01:02:27.365 --> 01:02:30.125
Let's keep him around or her around for the next semester,

1697
01:02:30.345 --> 01:02:32.445
or, you know, let's hire them eventually.

1698
01:02:33.065 --> 01:02:35.205
Uh, so it's really just about busting your ass

1699
01:02:35.205 --> 01:02:36.845
and putting the work first

1700
01:02:37.065 --> 01:02:40.125
and foremost when you know you're really young

1701
01:02:40.125 --> 01:02:41.525
and you can Yeah.

1702
01:02:42.105 --> 01:02:43.845
And then, you know, if you're not sure what you wanna do,

1703
01:02:43.875 --> 01:02:46.205
find the segment that you wanna do, um,

1704
01:02:46.345 --> 01:02:49.165
and then get a shitload of different internships across

1705
01:02:49.195 --> 01:02:53.205
that, that field and see what, uh, see what you're good at.

1706
01:02:53.805 --> 01:02:55.605
Hmm. And once you lose your ass once,

1707
01:02:55.945 --> 01:02:57.285
get the f**k out of there.

1708
01:02:57.285 --> 01:02:58.645
Right. No, I'm just,

1709
01:02:58.785 --> 01:02:59.785
I'm just kidding. I mean, you take

1710
01:02:59.785 --> 01:03:01.405
the L and you move on. Yeah, yeah.

1711
01:03:01.705 --> 01:03:03.005
In whatever direction you hear,

1712
01:03:03.005 --> 01:03:04.885
you read it in every business book under the sun.

1713
01:03:04.885 --> 01:03:06.765
Right, right. You got it. You can't be afraid to fail.

1714
01:03:06.785 --> 01:03:08.245
Mm-hmm. And everybody fails

1715
01:03:08.785 --> 01:03:10.925
and you know, you just f*****g keep doing it. It's

1716
01:03:10.925 --> 01:03:12.045
Okay to get punched in the mouth,

1717
01:03:12.065 --> 01:03:13.485
you just gotta keep fighting. Mm-hmm.

1718
01:03:13.565 --> 01:03:14.765
That's right. Yeah.

1719
01:03:15.345 --> 01:03:17.005
Tom, thanks so much for being on the show.

1720
01:03:17.235 --> 01:03:18.965
Good luck with Governor's Ball this year

1721
01:03:18.985 --> 01:03:20.245
and, uh, keep fighting the good fight,

1722
01:03:20.265 --> 01:03:21.405
bro. We're ruining for you. Oh

1723
01:03:21.405 --> 01:03:22.405
Yeah. Thank you guys. Thanks for

1724
01:03:22.405 --> 01:03:23.245
having me. Have a

1725
01:03:23.245 --> 01:03:24.245
Good one. Have a good day.

1726
01:03:24.245 --> 01:03:24.245